Adding two-stroke oil for lubricity - this study says NO.

[Trailboss]

FYI - Tractor Supply has the Rotella on sale thru 11/26/17 for $60. You can order it online for in-store pickup if you can't get there before Sunday.

 

[NormB]

FYI - Tractor Supply has the Rotella on sale thru 11/26/17 for $60. You can order it online for in-store pickup if you can't get there before Sunday.
View attachment 709240

You know, this can get old real fast.

I'm under the impression the "correct" Rotella T is the CJ-4 API rated oil.

https://prodepc.blob.core.windows.n...iple_Protection_15W-40_(CJ-4)_(en-US)_TDS.pdf

Poking around it seems the actual sulfur is about 15% lower in the CK-4 standard (ballpark figures):

http://pqiadata.org/Shell_Rotella_T4_15W40_4192017.html

An interesting graphic from the petroleum institute suggests CK-4 is ONLY suitable for newer, post-2016 diesel engines.

http://pqiadata.org/images/HDEO Timeline Picture For Web.jpg

In other words, this gets confusing as heck.

Like I said, I put up about 20 gallons of the stuff this past year, but I think I may have gotten ten gallons of the CK4, not CJ-4 by mistake. Now I need to do inventory.

Hence, the utility of the Zinc additive comes into play. Good insurance.

Anyone care to chime in?

 

[dependable]

You know, this can get old real fast.

I'm under the impression the "correct" Rotella T is the CJ-4 API rated oil.

In other words, this gets confusing as heck.

Anyone care to chime in?

Now I'm confused, I look at the tubs in my shop, and the old ones were Rotella T-3, the ones I just picked up are T-4. There is now only the T-4 available from my supplier. Probably will just continue to change the oil at good intervals and not think about it too much.

The first link did not work for me, but by the looks of the 2nd link, there is plenty of zinc in the T-4

 

[Floridianson]

Looking at one web sight Rotella T multi grade SAE 15w40 cj4 with triple protection had 1200 ppm zinc.
I just changed my GMC 3500 to Lucas 15w40 full Syn. and they claim 1281 ppm.

 

[NormB]

Now I'm confused, I look at the tubs in my shop, and the old ones were Rotella T-3, the ones I just picked up are T-4. There is now only the T-4 available from my supplier. Probably will just continue to change the oil at good intervals and not think about it too much.
The first link did not work for me, but by the looks of the 2nd link, there is plenty of zinc in the T-4

Yeah, my bad.

Working, posting between patients.

Reread and dug some more, and you're right, it looks like they BOTH have about the same amount of Sulfur at least, some zinc, lower than former industry standards. The additive still seems like good insurance.

I have a tractor supply account, site won't let me order online for store pickup much less even add it to the cart.

I'll call tomorrow and see what's in stock. $60 plus travel time is a good deal and I'm off Sunday.

Thanks.

 

[Floridianson]

Rotella T5 CJ4 has 1181 ppm zinc and the old CI4 had 1400ppm. My .02 we are still good.
As for the fuel it's funny how the question has been coming up from almost day one of SS.
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?45802-Diesel-Fuel-Grades-What-Do-You-Use

 

[rustystud]

Rotella T5 CJ4 has 1181 ppm zinc and the old CI4 had 1400ppm. My .02 we are still good.
As for the fuel it's funny how the question has been coming up from almost day one of SS.
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?45802-Diesel-Fuel-Grades-What-Do-You-Use

The reason there is so much misinformation out there is because the oil and fuel industry wants it that way. I know it sounds like a "conspiracy theory" kind of thing but actually it is just a delaying action on the part of the oil industry. Soon all these old engines will be gone and there will no longer be any need to even discuss the fuel or oil used in your engines. Just like the article in my buddies magazine said, deflect the questions and soon there will no longer be any questions. Can you imagine the lawsuit if the truth really came out ! There would be such a tremendous class action lawsuit the industry would not recover ! Well maybe not that bad, but it would be bad. Just at our transit agency we lost over 800 injection pumps in the first 6 months of switching to the ULSD ! I still remember customers coming in the shop with cams that had lost their lobes after switching to the newer oils. Some where just months old. In maybe fifty years from now the real truth will come out, but by then who would really care ?
So until I finally get rid of my old diesel and tappet cam engines I will just run a fuel lubricity additive and a engine oil additive.

 

[Floridianson]

http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf
Lets look at the number and it seems like most of the diesel oils are still in the ball park of 1200 ppm. Just saying.
http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oil_myths.pdf
Seems like everything I read the guys having problems are on older engines that have been modified / rebuilt with higher rpm and heavy valve spring pressure plus improper break in. The only thing I worry more about is my stuff sitting to long so I warm them up at least once a month if not more.

 

[Drock]

http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oils_and_zddp.pdf
Lets look at the number and it seems like most of the diesel oils are still in the ball park of 1200 ppm. Just saying.
http://www.nonlintec.com/sprite/oil_myths.pdf

I'm sorry this is just NOT TRUE! I had 2 hotrod motors destroyed by synthetic oils around 2002. And after talking to the techs at Crane cams, and several hotrod shops around Daytona Beach I was not alone. There's an entire market around Zinc additives for older engines! Google Zinc oil additives and you'll be overwhelmed with options. Including several companies offering "Muscle car oil".....https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MI3qSey93X1wIV0IuzCh35cQM9EAQYAiABEgLhdfD_BwE

 

[Floridianson]

Hot rod and proper break in also believe your talking about gas motors oils. Did you do the proper break in with the very high levels of zinc and not use syn. oil to start with? Our trucks are not race cars that demand a lot more. Yes there are additives and google is are friend.
As I said before in my GMC 3500 I run the Lucas Diesel 15w40 and it has 1281 ppm and I don't even worry about it.https://lucasoil.com/pdf/Zinc_Values_MotorcycleOil.pdf

 

[Drock]

Hot rod and proper break in also believe your talking about gas motors oils. Did you do the proper break in with the very high levels of zinc and not use syn. oil to start with? Our trucks are not race cars that demand a lot more. Yes there are additives and google is are friend.
As I said before in my GMC 3500 I run the Lucas Diesel 15w40 and it has 1281 ppm and I don't even worry about it.https://lucasoil.com/pdf/Zinc_Values_MotorcycleOil.pdf

Ahh yess, I broke them in properly, and Yes they were gas engines,(400 HP Ford 289) & (500HP Ford 351W). As to whether new oils can damage our diesel roller cam 6.2's, who knows. The point is the oil companies quietly changed their ingredients causing catastrophic damage to older engines. And simply blame shifted the problem to "improper break in". And subsequently creating a lucrative side market for themselves of selling us back the Zinc & phosphorus they took away.

 

[Floridianson]

Found this on comp cams. No Syn. on break in and remove inner valve spring and keep the rpm up. Guess it boils down to reading everything you can that is more than opinion and then make you call as to what you are comfortable with in life. If your wrong than you pay up if not then we go on to the next problem life throws at us.http://www.compcams.com/Instructions/Files/COMP4-115.pdf

 

[Drock]

Found this on comp cams. No Syn. on break in and remove inner valve spring and keep the rpm up. Guess it boils down to reading everything you can that is more than opinion and then make you call as to what you are comfortable with in life. If your wrong than you pay up if not then we go on to the next problem life throws at us.http://www.compcams.com/Instructions/Files/COMP4-115.pdf

I speak from experience not conjecture, of course I use break in oils on any new engine. I assumed I didn't need to point that out in my earlier statement. The wiped cams happened after break in when modern synthetics were used and again I'm not the only one. After speaking with several fellow hot rodders, engine builders, and speed shop owners at that time (2000-2003) it was a little known problem then. Again the simple fact is this. They changed something, it causes problems, and they sell the solution back to us via a small bottle of additive. And I'd rather not experiment with my 1984 6.2 diesel so I'll just use old dyno oil.

 

[frank8003]

The EPA wants this, The engine manufactures want that, We want what used to be.
Here is a little blurb from last month.

 

[The FLU farm]

As I said before in my GMC 3500 I run the Lucas Diesel 15w40 and it has 1281 ppm and I don't even worry about it.

Not sure if I should mention this or not, but I recently read a test of numerous diesel oils where Lucas placed quite poorly.

 

[Drock]

Not sure if I should mention this or not, but I recently read a test of numerous diesel oils where Lucas placed quite poorly.

And this is why I don't put much stock in "Independent testing".......Video....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne7ayhPVVYY

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Not sure if I should mention this or not, but I recently read a test of numerous diesel oils where Lucas placed quite poorly.

Probably an honest study, then.

 

[NormB]

And this is why I don't put much stock in "Independent testing".......Video....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne7ayhPVVYY

Curious how the synthetic would do taken slowly as the others were.

Also, the MSDS for Head and Shoulders shows 1-5% Selenium Sulfide as an active ingredient.

Which takes us back to SULFUR being removed from diesel oils and fuels leading to component damage.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[frank8003]

Did anybody else read that synthetic motor oil will not hold lead in suspension?
If one would want to read these some may find enlightening information contained within. They are not in dated order.
It just looks like a black box but there is PDF files in there. I don't know why it does that.
View attachment motor oil ZDDP OE30 Mil Spec G_LO 9 2320209 12_03042011.pdf

View attachment motor oil rotella t Engine Oil Mythology 2-2007.pdf

View attachment GPCDOC_X_cbe_24855_key_140001864679_2989.pdf

View attachment oil zddp zdtp apism cj4 03132013.pdf

 

[HelluvaEngineer]

I'm sorry this is just NOT TRUE! I had 2 hotrod motors destroyed by synthetic oils around 2002. And after talking to the techs at Crane cams, and several hotrod shops around Daytona Beach I was not alone. There's an entire market around Zinc additives for older engines! Google Zinc oil additives and you'll be overwhelmed with options. Including several companies offering "Muscle car oil".....https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...MI3qSey93X1wIV0IuzCh35cQM9EAQYAiABEgLhdfD_BwE

You're right. I have a 383 I built years ago and almost never drive...at any rate it has a not-that-agressive but modern profile flat tappet cam on it. I've run diesel oil in it (Rotella) from day one because it used to and hopefully still does have the additional additives. The oil pressure can be insane though until it warms up ~ 100 PSI at 2k RPM.