Adding two-stroke oil for lubricity - this study says NO.

[Bill W]

I've always thought that this was a good independent test done on additives. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76.../177728-lubricity-additive-study-results.html

 

[dougco1]

Well I read the whole article and the companion article. First, there was no mention of "older" diesels (Pre 1999) in the companion article. Second the tests referenced where from 1999. They used the "scuffing load ball test" which was discredited over 10 years ago. Third this whole article was from a third world country (South Africa) . Personally I do not trust any "Tests" done by a third world country.
Now I personally don't use 2 stroke oil in any of my diesel engines. It was not designed for diesel fuel. I personally use "Opti-Lube XPD" in all my diesel fuel. It is well documented to "help" increase lubricity in the injection pump.
Now for those who do not believe in using any additives in their CUCV, I would point to "Stanadyne" who makes a great fuel additive and by the way is the "Manufacture" of the injection pump used in the 6.2 diesel engine. Why in the world would the manufacture of the injection pump say to add anything to the fuel if that fuel was OK ? Just saying.
Now if your running a modern diesel engine there is no need to add anything to the fuel. The injection system has been designed to handle "Ultra Low Sulpher Diesel Fuel" . Just a reminder to all. ULSD has only 15 ppm of sulpher while the older fuel in the 1980s had over 2000 ppm of Sulpher.

I remember as a kid in the 60s the smell of the city transit busses running the high sulfur fuels. It smelled distinctly good at the time. Maybe that's why I got hooked on tobacco for the past 40+ years.

 

[frank8003]

Some use Diesel Kleen or whatever
Do the MSDS on it
Maybe just goto H~depot and get a gallon can of naphtha and put it with a full tank of whatever.
Can't hurt. worked for me.
Perhaps this is not what this thread is about.

Thgis is just a cut and copy
but the information is there
Re: Cheapest way to Increase Octane?
Naptha works, you only need a pint to 15 gallons. Slows the flash rate on gas so it doesn't pre-ignite leading to detonation.

here's a list of what most boosters have as ingredients;

Nitro Power Booster Fuel Treatment
1-Nitropropane 45-55%
Toluene 18-27
Methanol 13-23
Acetone 5-10

MMT+ Octane Booster Fuel Treatment (offroad)
Toluene 25-30%
Methanol 25-30
Hydrocarbon Solvent 20-30
Acetone 5-10
Octane Improver Concentrate 5-10
Hexanes <5

Wynn's Spitfire +Plus+ With Octane Booster
Petroleum Distillate 85-95%
Naptha 1- 5

Wynn's Spitfire Octane Booster
Petroleum Distillate 90-100%

Gunk Octane Performance Booster
Petroleum distillate, Aliphalic 60-100%
Hydrocarbon Solvent 1- 5
Polyether amine 1- 5
Naphthalene .1- 1
Petroleum naphtha .1- 1
Xylene .1- 1

MALCO OCTANE BOOSTER
Kerosine 86-96%
Trade Secret 1-10

Turbo Octane Boost 108
(No percentages given)
Methanol
t-Butyl alcohol

STP Octane Performance Booster
Kerosine, petroleum, hydrodesulfurized 60-80
Petroleum distillates (JP5 Jet fuel) 60-80
Solvent naphtha, petroleum, medium aliphatic 60-80
Stoddard solvent 60-80
Solvent naphtha, petroleum, light aromatic 15-40
Trade secret ingredients 10-30
Naphthalene 0- 2
1,2,4-Trimethylbenzene 1-10
Mesitylene (1,3,5-Trimethylbenzene) 1- 5
Xylene (mixed isomers) 1- 3
(This one doesn't seem to add up with all the 60-80% in there)

STP Octane Booster
Petroleum Distillates 90-100%
1,2,4-Trimethylbenzene 1- 3

NOS Octane Booster (Street Formula)
Kerosine >60%
Proprietary Polymer <5
Petroleum distillates, hydrocarbonated light <5
2-Propanol <5

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Some use Diesel Kleen or whatever
Do the MSDS on it
Maybe just goto H~depot and get a gallon can of naphtha and put it with a full tank of whatever.
Can't hurt. worked for me.
Perhaps this is not what this thread is about.

Thgis is just a cut and copy
but the information is there
Re: Cheapest way to Increase Octane?

Hmmm. I'm not sure why you'd want to increase the octane rating on diesel fuel....

 

[snowtrac nome]

It is one I read a while back, there another one out there that has waste oil new motor oil and waste atf added that test I believe amsoil and power service wouldn't donate their product. They also tested the products that the bulk suppliers are adding to the fuel to make compliant for use in our older engines. I wished I could find that study again it would be a real eye opener for those dead set on adding waste products to their fuel.

 

[rustystud]

Hmmm. I'm not sure why you'd want to increase the octane rating on diesel fuel....

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[rustystud]

I've always thought that this was a good independent test done on additives. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/76.../177728-lubricity-additive-study-results.html

I agree, this was a well done study. Note that it had to be done by "private" individuals. The fuel companies would never do a study like this as they know the outcome already. I posted an article from the "Independent Fuel Station Association" (which my best friend belongs to since he owns a gas station) on the Deuce forum. In this article they where talking about the newer motor oils that meet the new emissions standards. The oil companies knew the oil was bad on older tappet cam engines and gave advice to the station owners on how to "deflect" car owners from suing due to engine damage. This information never came to light for the general public of course, but all us diesel mechanics knew about it. The same has happened with diesel fuel. Spin the information until all the older engines are gone, then there is no worries ! Makes a person extremely angry, but what can you do ? They have the media in their pockets and the blessing of the Government since it was the government which forced the change. There is correct information out there but you need to dig for it, and if you post it you will have a ton of payed "Trolls" dispute it all day long. It's the world we live in now.

 

[dependable]

Every time I go on to dieselplace forum, I get a fake firefox update and other suspicious computer behavior. I appreciate the fact that this site is well maintained and that sort of this is rare here.

 

[dougco1]

Hmmm. I'm not sure why you'd want to increase the octane rating on diesel fuel....

I believe with diesel it is cetane. the higher the cetane the easier to ignite and the better it will run. But the higher the cetane the energy denseness is less.

 

[royalflush55]

Actually you want a higher CETANE rating on diesel. The higher the cetane rating the easier a diesel engine will start and you will have a more complete burn of the diesel. During compression stroke the higher cetane fuel will explode a little quicker with more power. When combustion happens closer to top dead center more power is developed than when it fires just after top dead center. The higher the cetane rating on diesel the lower the octane rating will be.

The better diesel fuel additives will increase cetane rating and improve lubricity at the same time! You will get improved starting and performance while protecting your injection pump and injectors. And these products are designed to be added to fuel that's burned in your engine.

 

[Tinstar]

 

[dependable]

The above chart is handy, For my purposes, I need a fuel additive that will help my old diesels without messing up my new ones, as I fuel from a transfer tank in the back of one of my trucks.

 

[FrankenCub]

I agree, this was a well done study. Note that it had to be done by "private" individuals. The fuel companies would never do a study like this as they know the outcome already. I posted an article from the "Independent Fuel Station Association" (which my best friend belongs to since he owns a gas station) on the Deuce forum. In this article they where talking about the newer motor oils that meet the new emissions standards. The oil companies knew the oil was bad on older tappet cam engines and gave advice to the station owners on how to "deflect" car owners from suing due to engine damage. This information never came to light for the general public of course, but all us diesel mechanics knew about it. The same has happened with diesel fuel. Spin the information until all the older engines are gone, then there is no worries ! Makes a person extremely angry, but what can you do ? They have the media in their pockets and the blessing of the Government since it was the government which forced the change. There is correct information out there but you need to dig for it, and if you post it you will have a ton of payed "Trolls" dispute it all day long. It's the world we live in now.

A lot of truth to this! I don't trust anything coming from any of the big oil companies. I learned first hand how bad the new oils were in my previous truck. I had a low mileage '71 GMC, all original and unmolested. Using the new oils I started having problems keeping the valves in adjustment. One by one the lobes on the cam went south and after estimating what a complete rebuild would cost I decided it was cheaper to buy a GM crate engine. Before I installed it I got to researching oils because I didn't want issues. That's when I found out the new oils have extremely little zink in them, which helps lube the cam lobes. I started running Bred Penn in it, definitely not eco friendly oil but it had the highest zink content I could find and would ensure the cam survived.
I thought about using it in my M1008 but being roller lifters I don't think it's necessary.

 

[snowtrac nome]

Also being a vw guy I had an engine case put together and did the top end my self. I like synthetic oil so I filled it with 5 w 40 synthetis and in to the snow trac it went with in 50 hrs I broke a valve. Had a talk with an aircraft mechanic he determined the head had been hot,than I talked with a vw expert in southern ca. He informed me what has come out of automotive oils to be environmentally friendly, and also how synthetic oils don't transfer heat like mineral oils do. now I only run aviation oils in my air cooled engines I over 3000 hours on it now and still have a tight crank and a cherry top end. one thing to remember oil is the only cooling for the heads on aircooled engines. now I still believe in synthetics on all my other engines but there are some other engines that I run special oils in road oilers are one that requires a special high zinc oil in them.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

That's when I found out the new oils have extremely little zink in them, which helps lube the cam lobes. I started running Bred Penn in it, definitely not eco friendly oil but it had the highest zink content I could find and would ensure the cam survived.

Rotella has plenty of zinc in it.

 

[Drock]

Rotella has plenty of zinc in it.

Agreed, I use 15w40 Rotella, and change the oil every 3000 to 4000 miles. Flat tappet engines will be destroyed by the new oils lacking Zink. Not sure about our 6.2's sense they have roller cams, but I figured why risk it.

 

[NormB]

Not TOO far off topic, I hope, but does anyone have any experience with this stuff:
ZDDPLUS7176 Zinc/Phosphorous Additive for Oil Concentrate

I have noticed the plain HD Diesel 15w-40 oil is getting harder to find. I’ve stashed 20 gallons of it as I’ve found it at Tractor supply and through Amazon. Even local (to my farm) Walmart’s not stocking it in favor of the newer varieties.

Some alphabet agency get their marching orders to remove zinc/sulfur-containing oils off the market?

Norm

 

[The FLU farm]

I've used the ZDDPLUS stuff in older sports cars, but have no idea if it actually helped.
But I do recall reading that too much zinc is not good.

 

[pmramsey]

I add the ZDDPLUS to my ENDT-673 Mack. It is the third and last version of the engine.

 

[rustystud]

Not TOO far off topic, I hope, but does anyone have any experience with this stuff:
ZDDPLUS7176 Zinc/Phosphorous Additive for Oil Concentrate

I have noticed the plain HD Diesel 15w-40 oil is getting harder to find. I’ve stashed 20 gallons of it as I’ve found it at Tractor supply and through Amazon. Even local (to my farm) Walmart’s not stocking it in favor of the newer varieties.

Some alphabet agency get their marching orders to remove zinc/sulfur-containing oils off the market?

Norm

I use the MAXX brand myself but basically they are the same. Just remember to follow the directions for use. As has been mentioned already, too much zinc can cause other problems.