Aftermarket CTIS covers for FMTVs

Third From Texas

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Why only 3 bolts? Man, that just flares up my OCD. It makes them look so goofy.
LOL

I didn't want to be the first to say it, but yep.

Why only three? To save money.

But they don't look the same distance apart and that would drive me insane (LOL).

The price is not too unreasonable assuming powder coated, but for another $5 in hardware they could have done it right.

I doubt that there is any real balance issue, but that too would keep me awake at night.

;)
 

olly hondro

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I'm OK with 3 bolts. I'm OK with $100 per, since I do not have to build it myself. I do really need something more stout than 14 gauge though. That is only 5/64". I could double them up, I suppose. I give them points for actually committing a design to metal, however.
 

Awesomeness

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I've said for years, just make it a flat disc like rock crawlers use, like sand car bead locks.

Just a flat disc bolted to standoffs (like the $3 standoffs and a $1 bolt that MWE or the OEM use).

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That's not as good of an idea in this case, where it would only supported by the standoffs. On rockcrawlers, the ring sits against the rim, and the rim supports it. You would have to make these really thick to take the abuse from rocks.
 

Third From Texas

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That's not as good of an idea in this case, where it would only supported by the standoffs. On rockcrawlers, the ring sits against the rim, and the rim supports it. You would have to make these really thick to take the abuse from rocks.
Disagree.

The OEM's use 4" standoffs with a 3" tuck in the metal back to the rim.

MWE use a 2" standoff with what looks like no more than 1" tuck back into the rim.

A flat disc (and I'm talking like a giant washer, not a solid disc) could use a 1" standoff and sit flat on the edge of the rim.

I know it would work because I mocked them up with cardboard a couple years ago. The specifics on the length of the stand off and bolts above are just examples, but go look at a Titan rim. A flat disc will work and it will sit against the rim.

btw, I was the first one to suggest using hex coupling nuts and hex cap screws (and it was Neil from FB who located the right size at Fastenal).

:)
 

coachgeo

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the problem with rock guards like hardcore-ish offroaders "USE" to run is they collect mud and pebbles...... which is why it is NOT on most rigs anymore..... it fell out of favor quickly. Most who have them now are Mall Crawler rigs. Too make sure Im not imagioning things .... just scanned thru about 2 hrs of 2020 rockcrawling and hill climbing videos... only two rigs was using them.

Now that said..... our rigs do have those hoses/valve etc to protect.... so either we need very narrow rock ring to protect them so very little mud gets packed in there......or... very large ones that cover the whole thing and let nothing in. (theoretically) Issue with a full thing like that though is it retains hub heat.. UNLESS... you set the ring say 1/4 inch OUT so muddy water can get in.. mud can get in.... rocks can not.. things cant wack the hoses.... AND... mud can get SLUNG OUT and air sucked in while driving on the road to cool the hub still.
 

Awesomeness

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Disagree.

The OEM's use 4" standoffs with a 3" tuck in the metal back to the rim.

MWE use a 2" standoff with what looks like no more than 1" tuck back into the rim.

A flat disc (and I'm talking like a giant washer, not a solid disc) could use a 1" standoff and sit flat on the edge of the rim.

I know it would work because I mocked them up with cardboard a couple years ago. The specifics on the length of the stand off and bolts above are just examples, but go look at a Titan rim. A flat disc will work and it will sit against the rim.

btw, I was the first one to suggest using hex coupling nuts and hex cap screws (and it was Neil from FB who located the right size at Fastenal).

:)
The stock guards are formed in a "U" shape, and both points of the "U" contact the rim. It's completely supported, and so a rock hitting anywhere has to crush the "U". So it's an arch, and is pretty strong.

With a flat metal plate that is only supported at the standoffs, you have a bridge that can be caved in in the middle, or a cantilevered section. Both of those are not ideal.

It would be ok in mud country, but not as much in the rocky stuff.
 

coachgeo

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The stock guards are formed in a "U" shape, and both points of the "U" contact the rim. It's completely supported, and so a rock hitting anywhere has to crush the "U". So it's an arch, and is pretty strong.

With a flat metal plate that is only supported at the standoffs, you have a bridge that can be caved in in the middle, or a cantilevered section. Both of those are not ideal.

It would be ok in mud country, but not as much in the rocky stuff.
very good points. I think the MME one has a broader span thus allowing the 1" outer bend to possibly sit on the rim.. just below the rubber.... where as the OEM one sat more in the dish... MME needs to put another bend on the inner circle for strength but it does not "have" to hit the rim IFFFF.... they put a plastic or even plywood ring inside it that sits against the rest of the bead lock ring bolt ends.
 

Third From Texas

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The stock guards are formed in a "U" shape, and both points of the "U" contact the rim. It's completely supported, and so a rock hitting anywhere has to crush the "U". So it's an arch, and is pretty strong.

With a flat metal plate that is only supported at the standoffs, you have a bridge that can be caved in in the middle, or a cantilevered section. Both of those are not ideal.

It would be ok in mud country, but not as much in the rocky stuff.
And a flat plate would be crushed at 14ga steel.

But I'm pretty certain that a 1/4" wheel ring can take a lickin' if it's resting against the rim. So make them to the desired thickness that sets you mind at ease.

I don't disagree that the U-shape allows more bracing surface, but no one is making those still (the ones from MWE have an L-shape profile and there is no inboard bracing, so they are no different than a flat ring except *you* can specify the thickness of the ring).

I have a pair on my massive list of crap to go to fab. I''ll be putting them on my M1082 trailer.

ymmv
 

Third From Texas

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the problem with rock guards like hardcore-ish offroaders "USE" to run is they collect mud and pebbles...... which is why it is NOT on most rigs anymore..... it fell out of favor quickly. Most who have them now are Mall Crawler rigs. Too make sure Im not imagioning things .... just scanned thru about 2 hrs of 2020 rockcrawling and hill climbing videos... only two rigs was using them.

Now that said..... our rigs do have those hoses/valve etc to protect.... so either we need very narrow rock ring to protect them so very little mud gets packed in there......or... very large ones that cover the whole thing and let nothing in. (theoretically) Issue with a full thing like that though is it retains hub heat.. UNLESS... you set the ring say 1/4 inch OUT so muddy water can get in.. mud can get in.... rocks can not.. things cant wack the hoses.... AND... mud can get SLUNG OUT and air sucked in while driving on the road to cool the hub still.

* "USED to run" ;p

Yeah, back then the engineers had not discovered the concept of incorporating slots or holes.

Not until the government spec'ed "no mud or pebbles" did someone make such a breakthrough.

Now if there were just some way to cut some form of hole or slot in the metal like the military discovered (but kept top secret), a flat ring might just work. But alas, the secret died with OEM ring production at Tank Command.

CTIS protectors only need to stand off as far as the CTIS assembly (ie the lip of the rim). And if made thick enough they would fit and work just fine. If we only possessed the technology to cut some form of slots or hole to allow mud, sand, and pebbles to escape.

;p

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Third From Texas

Well-known member
708
443
63
Location
Corpus Christi Texas
the problem with rock guards like hardcore-ish offroaders "USE" to run is they collect mud and pebbles...... which is why it is NOT on most rigs anymore..... it fell out of favor quickly. Most who have them now are Mall Crawler rigs. Too make sure Im not imagioning things .... just scanned thru about 2 hrs of 2020 rockcrawling and hill climbing videos... only two rigs was using them.

Now that said..... our rigs do have those hoses/valve etc to protect.... so either we need very narrow rock ring to protect them so very little mud gets packed in there......or... very large ones that cover the whole thing and let nothing in. (theoretically) Issue with a full thing like that though is it retains hub heat.. UNLESS... you set the ring say 1/4 inch OUT so muddy water can get in.. mud can get in.... rocks can not.. things cant wack the hoses.... AND... mud can get SLUNG OUT and air sucked in while driving on the road to cool the hub still.

Seriously, though...

You're second assessment is correct. The reason they aren't seen much on rock crawlers (or rigs racing at KoH) is two fold:

1) the "rings" that they run are in fact over-sized extensions of the bead lock. Think that thru a second. What happens when one takes a serious hit? a) they pop the bead, b) they bend in and can interfere with what they were designed to protect.

2) As you note, those vehicles don't have delicate external hoses to protect.


Sandcars on the other hand rarely encounter solid obstacles in the dunes, so the oversized beadlocks are quite common. But as much for show as function in that situation.

Our trucks are another thing all together. More akin to rockcrawler (speed wise) than a KoH vic. BUT we DO have something that requires protection, thus the protectors.

I was merely using sand cars and rock crawlers as examples of what a flat CTIS protector might look like. We're certainly not using them as beadlocks....

:)
 
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