Banjo fitting not sealing

[blb5198]

I'm having trouble getting my fittings on my new wheel cylinder to seal. It's very frustrating when you work hard to make things right then have problems with brand new parts. Could it be cheap copper washers maybe? Anyone ever use anything other than copper?
Thanks

 

[DHennon]

I bought new ones from White Owl Truck Parts in NC. Great folks. Be sure there are two copper wahers on each side of the fitting. Sometimes the copper washer on the backing plate sticks when you take off the fitting.

 

[DieselBob]

Well it could be that the washers you received where sub par. I got some with one or two of the wheel cylinders when I replaced all of mine. Also did you torque the banjo bolt to the spec of 65 lb-ft. I thought I was going to bust the darn thing but it didn't.

"4. Install hose connector (3) to wheel cylinder (10) with two washers (1) and brake line screw (2).
Tighten screw (2) 65 lb-ft (88 NŽm)."

 

[m1010plowboy]

Crush washers

My veteran mechanic says he replaces every copper crush washer, every time he touches one. They are all you have between DRIP and Dry. Have not heard of a replacement material yet but you'd think with the polymer 'everything' on the market we would find something better by now.



My old deuce couldn't find the correct ID washers so we got some with a smaller ID. Hand filed each one until we had a nice tight fit. Until this very moment when I said it.....haven't had one leak yet.

Good, dry luck!

 

[KaiserM109]

Replacing the copper washers is the best thing, but if you grew up 70 mi. from the nearest autoparts store, you learn a few tricks. The copper washers get work hardened and you have the problem you described. One second best solution is to heat the washer up moderately hot and drop it into water. That will soften it. I used to do that with motorcycle head gaskets which are a brass ring.

Good luck

 

[rosco]

Anealing the washer is commonly done, when you have to re-use them. Heat them to red temperature. You can do it on a gas cook stove, or use a propane torch.

 

[blb5198]

I used all brand new washers and fittings and 3 out of the 6 were leaking. I'm thinking they might be a lower grade copper which would make them harder. Maybe I'll try the heat trick. Thanks for the replies to such a dumb problem.

 

[jasonjc]

There should be two different sizes used. I know O'reily crosses them both to one part number. It's not right but some bean counter thought it would be cheaper to stock 1 instead of 2.

 

[Wildchild467]

I forget how mine look exactly, but I do remember my expeierience with them before as to make sure the correct side goes toward the wheel cylinder. Sometimes it does not matter, but part of the fitting on the brake hose may be hitting a part on the wheel cylinder preventing the fitting from mating flush to the wheel cylinder. Just food for thought and something to look for.

 

[Keith_J]

I forget how mine look exactly, but I do remember my expeierience with them before as to make sure the correct side goes toward the wheel cylinder. Sometimes it does not matter, but part of the fitting on the brake hose may be hitting a part on the wheel cylinder preventing the fitting from mating flush to the wheel cylinder. Just food for thought and something to look for.

The machining of the gasket faces on the banjo bolt and wheel cylinder are slightly different. So if you must reuse, anneal and flip the washers. Keep them in the original position, flip each washer.

I've done this for injector to head seals which are the same material. Works great.

 

[rmgill]

In addition to annealing, makes sure the washers don't have any burs on them. A light sanding with some fine sand paper (400 grit) can sometimes help in this to buff them smooth prior to annealing. A bent or creased washer is of course going to have issues.

 

[KaiserM109]

I used all brand new washers and fittings and 3 out of the 6 were leaking. …

Those banjo bolts take some serious torque. Best thing to do is to find the torque spec’s instead of taking the word of someone like me. That being said, it is about as much as you can put on a 12” ratchet without a cheater bar. Make sure you are using a good 6 point socket and get it on straight so that you don’t round off the corners.

I don’t mean to treat you like a newby, but some reading this might be. When you are putting serious torque on a ratchet, steady the head of the ratchet with one hand to keep it from coming off sideways.

 

[blb5198]

I don't think I had them tight enough. I have a bad track record of over tightening stuff so I was going a tad easy on them. I think I got it, now time for the singles and paint. Thank you all

 

[m1010plowboy]

Crush Washers, Torque Spec

Sure glad you got this solved. Thanks to you I checked mine again with a re-torque and they have not moved and are still dry.

Good tip on correct torque and heating up old washers. These guys and their big words........... I'm going to go and ANNEAL me up some meat and potatoes.

 

[Dipstick]

What type of brake fluid does a Deuce use. I've been looking through the lubrication order and using the search function, but I can't find out anything other than it's silicone based. I guess what I'm asking is it Dot3,4, or 5. Thanks for your help.

 

[DatGuyC]

DOT5, the most expensive stuff of course.

 

[blb5198]

Yep i put dot 5 silicone in mine. Indeed the most expensive but worth it.

 

[KaiserM109]

I don't think I had them tight enough. I have a bad track record of over tightening stuff so I was going a tad easy on them. I think I got it, now time for the singles and paint. Thank you all

I had that habit for a long time, too. For a while I worked with a professionally trained mechanic and would often see him stop what he was doing and go look up torque spec’s.

I learned that particularly on things like spark plugs and pan and valve cover bolts I was committing the too-tight sin. I also snapped a few pressure plate bolts before I looked up the spec’s.

Too tight can be as dangerous as too loose because it can cause a bolt to snap in operation.

Arlyn

 

[197thhhc]

I'm glad torquing them down more worked for you. I've never had any issues with the ones I sell and I have been going out of my mind wondering why they were leaking on yours. I even replaced the front wheel cylinders on my deuce with the new ones to see if something was wrong with them But they were ok. I didnt think about telling you to crank them down more. Glad it worked out.

Ted
Real Custom Trucks

 

[Valence]

Well it could be that the washers you received where sub par. I got some with one or two of the wheel cylinders when I replaced all of mine. Also did you torque the banjo bolt to the spec of 65 lb-ft. I thought I was going to bust the darn thing but it didn't.

"4. Install hose connector (3) to wheel cylinder (10) with two washers (1) and brake line screw (2).
Tighten screw (2) 65 lb-ft (88 NŽm)."

I found this very helpful, thank you.

I wanted to know where this was. While many, many TMs are available here on Steel Soldiers, they are completely lacking in organization and it's difficult to know which ones will have what you need. Some of the TM titles are helpful and you know you can skip the "Multifuel" ones when you're after something in the axle, but many of the TM titles contain no help as to what it actually covers. So I went digging and generally have to resort to opening several to find out they don't cover what I'm after.

If anyone is interested in where this figure and instructions is located in the "Technical Manuals" -> "The Deuce TMs" forum -> "TMs for the Deuce" thread

TM9-2320-361-20.pdf
TM9-2320-361-20 Technical Manual and Unit Maintenance. (Later Edition TM)

Section 8-9 Hydraulic Wheel Cylinder Replacement, pg. 8-24
PDF Page 598 of 1209