Deuce Rough Terrain Limitations

[therealquaid]

A web search comes up with 10x335, and looking at Oshkosh's web page, MRAP Wheel / Rim - Oshkosh Equipment , they also list it as 10x335.

If beadlock is important, you might consider this: MRAP 20' ALUMINUM RIM | WESTERN CANADIAN ROCKWELL INC

WCR has sold adapter plates in the past. I've never bought from them, so I can't say anything about dealing with them.

Thanks for those links!

I understand now that the reason the MRAP wheel fits the Deuce is because that 10x335 bolt pattern can be adapted for the 2.5ton axle, whereas all the rims with zero offset that I found have a 10x11.25” (10x285) what they are referring to as “commercial semi truck bolt pattern”.

So it seems that to have a gnarly truck with hydraulic assisted power-steering and the capability of using very low psi (both desirable traits in rough terrain and sand) the only wheel to fit a Deuce with close to zero offset and beadlocks is the m1076 PLS trailer rim. Of course a lift in order to avoid the pitman arm/power steering box might also allow for using a rim without zero offset like the MRAP you just suggested.

This rim I sent in post #76 almost fit the bill but the bolt pattern confirms it is not a m1076 and would not fit the Deuce with adapters…

20×10 TRLR wheel army trailer | Military Tires

TRLR wheel assembly, MFR:20076, 20×10, max load:9000 lb., PN:05-15393-00-450, Tubeless, DOT “T” max pressure 87 psi Positive Offset Back spacing 6 1/4″ Mounting hole 1″

militarytires.ca

I wish I knew this at the time you sold your set @montaillou

 

[montaillou]

the only wheel to fit a Deuce

Well, we're still talking theoretical...you could change the hubs. Or just go with a 5 ton to begin with. I bought a Deuce for the fuel mileage because I take long trips and it made sense. If you're designing for off road, maybe you should move away from the M35?

 

[therealquaid]

Well, we're still talking theoretical...you could change the hubs. Or just go with a 5 ton to begin with. I bought a Deuce for the fuel mileage because I take long trips and it made sense. If you're designing for off road, maybe you should move away from the M35?

Hm yes changing the hubs could be benefitial to increase the capability of the Deuce. I agree that with the items we’ve talked about the 5 ton would do better. This thread isn’t exactly talking about my truck necessarily, but to understand better the limitations of the Deuce while I’m learning how to work on it myself.

I’m building an expedition truck to live in full-time, I intend to start a thread with details soon. Personally I have some design decisions in my build that require me to use the M35, this thread is focused on the Deuce so I can learn what is possible with it from people who have tried these mods.

The beadlock is not absolutely necessary in sand, as @G744 mentioned, so all these upgrades could be done without a beadlock wheel. If it comes down to building up the skillset and tools to weld and re-center my own wheels it may take a long time but I like learning and need to start somewhere!

 

[Mullaney]

Hm yes changing the hubs could be benefitial to increase the capability of the Deuce. I agree that with the items we’ve talked about the 5 ton would do better. This thread isn’t exactly talking about my truck necessarily, but to understand better the limitations of the Deuce while I’m learning how to work on it myself.

I’m building an expedition truck to live in full-time, I intend to start a thread with details soon. Personally I have some design decisions in my build that require me to use the M35, this thread is focused on the Deuce so I can learn what is possible with it from people who have tried these mods.

The beadlock is not absolutely necessary in sand, as @G744 mentioned, so all these upgrades could be done without a beadlock wheel. If it comes down to building up the skillset and tools to weld and re-center my own wheels it may take a long time but I like learning and need to start somewhere!

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Just need to remember that welded by you rims come with a Lawyer attached to them. Especially without a welding certificate with your name on it. That comment is the simple version of saying you need to CYA - and welding your own rims won't be a good way to do that...

.

 

[therealquaid]

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Just need to remember that welded by you rims come with a Lawyer attached to them. Especially without a welding certificate with your name on it. That comment is the simple version of saying you need to CYA - and welding your own rims won't be a good way to do that...

.

I appreciate your advice. I thought it would be feasible because I’ve seen a few people on SteelSoldiers having their wheels welded so maybe I thought it wouldn’t be a problem. Maybe most of them have welding certificates or asked a certified welder to make them?

 

[Mullaney]

I appreciate your advice. I thought it would be feasible because I’ve seen a few people on SteelSoldiers having their wheels welded so maybe I thought it wouldn’t be a problem. Maybe most of them have welding certificates or asked a certified welder to make them?

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And some sort of testing faclity like a manufacturing company... Think Cragar or Centerline or American Racing or other folks in the business of building wheels for the general public.

Not trying to bust your bubble for the goal of bigger tires on bigger rims. Just trying to make sure that you don't end up with no house, no car, and no money for the rest of your life - if something goes wrong.

 

[montaillou]

Maybe

There are pros that will do this sort of thing, you can find shops on the internet. And some of the people on here are certified and/or their trucks never leave their property or see pavement. However, if you're going off road, it won't matter as no insurance will attach to off road anyways. The problem might be getting to the off road and your potential liability on the way.

I don't recall seeing this, but do you have a winch? If you don't, it'd be cheaper to just get something with a block & tackle rather.

 

[therealquaid]

There are pros that will do this sort of thing, you can find shops on the internet. And some of the people on here are certified and/or their trucks never leave their property or see pavement. However, if you're going off road, it won't matter as no insurance will attach to off road anyways. The problem might be getting to the off road and your potential liability on the way.

I don't recall seeing this, but do you have a winch? If you don't, it'd be cheaper to just get something with a block & tackle rather.

I had not thought of the block & tackle that’s something I’ll look in to! That’s much cheaper.

I don’t have a winch and I think it would add too much extra weight for something I can only use if I have something to attach to right in front of me.


I know a lot of the europeans overlanding in expedition trucks use a Tirfor grip hoist cable puller which can hoist the truck up from any angle you can attach it to. I’ve actually heard of a guy that pulled his 24,000lb truck out of the sand by himself with one of those winches. They sell them here under different names like the ARB hand winch or steel cable puller and for winching purposes work way above their rating.

 

[montaillou]

to attach to right in front of me.

The Deuce winch has quite a bit of cable length, and there are ways to run the cable that wouldn't hurt the truck. Though I agree that the truck may not always be in a situation where running the winch cable would be easy. For instance, sitting in 5 feet of water/mud. Though, that poster did mention that he secures the line up high before going into those situations.

I have considered a secondary (I have the Deuce winch), portable, remote control, electric winch with a block & tackle. It won't take up much storage space and I can conceive of situations where the truck winch may not be adequate/feasible.

 

[rustystud]

I had not thought of the block & tackle that’s something I’ll look in to! That’s much cheaper.

I don’t have a winch and I think it would add too much extra weight for something I can only use if I have something to attach to right in front of me.


I know a lot of the europeans overlanding in expedition trucks use a Tirfor grip hoist cable puller which can hoist the truck up from any angle you can attach it to. I’ve actually heard of a guy that pulled his 24,000lb truck out of the sand by himself with one of those winches. They sell them here under different names like the ARB hand winch or steel cable puller and for winching purposes work way above their rating.View attachment 897406

Before buying anything, why not look into taking a "Vehicle Recovery Class" . Warn Winch used to offer these classes I believe. The classes I had in the Marines gave me the knowledge to extract any vehicle out of almost any situation. That includes the time my neighbor had a 450 case dozer buried over the tracks in mud. Got it out in an hour. Yes I did get dirty.
Knowing how to extract myself is also why I carry four snatch blocks and extra chain and cable in my Deuce.

 

[therealquaid]

That includes the time my neighbor had a 450 case dozer buried over the tracks in mud. Got it out in an hour. Yes I did get dirty.

Wow yep I bet that was quite the feeling getting that heavy dozer out! I never had to get anything that heavy. I’ve been overlanding full-time for 16 months now so I’ve had to dig myself out a few times but nothing that serious and hopefully less now with the deuce. But everyone benefits from getting comfortable getting a big vehicle out.

Before buying anything, why not look into taking a "Vehicle Recovery Class" .

I agree, right now probably the deuce’s biggest rough terrain limitation is me I’m fortunate to have a guy who builds buggies for endurance races giving me some tips.

I’m also heading to Flagstaff for the Overland Expo and take a few recovery classes this weekend. There’s a few guys there showcasing their builds on a fuso truck like the one in post #1, an LMTV and a M152.

I might even stop by Jack’s Surplus in Tucson and go digging for a PLS m1076 rim

 

[rustystud]

Wow yep I bet that was quite the feeling getting that heavy dozer out! I never had to get anything that heavy. I’ve been overlanding full-time for 16 months now so I’ve had to dig myself out a few times but nothing that serious and hopefully less now with the deuce. But everyone benefits from getting comfortable getting a big vehicle out.




I agree, right now probably the deuce’s biggest rough terrain limitation is me I’m fortunate to have a guy who builds buggies for endurance races giving me some tips.

I’m also heading to Flagstaff for the Overland Expo and take a few recovery classes this weekend. There’s a few guys there showcasing their builds on a fuso truck like the one in post #1, an LMTV and a M152.

I might even stop by Jack’s Surplus in Tucson and go digging for a PLS m1076 rim

Recovery classes can benefit all of us. I could use some refresher course's myself after all these years. Before I went in the Marines and Tank school, I used to off-road with my IHC Scout a lot. I had a nice Warn winch mounted on the front bumper and thought myself the "Cats Meow !" . Then I saw this older gentleman with "NO" winch get himself out of a deep muck hole (well over 4ft deep) with just a simple "come-a-long" and a few well placed logs. I realized "Knowledge" trumped fancy equipment anytime. Of course "knowledge" along with "fancy equipment" can really do fantastic things !

 

[BigMontana]

If you're not trying to get into trouble, only get out of trouble with lockers, I was thinking it would be pretty easy to install an air actuated single tire brake on each wheel.

That's how us rednecks did limited slip when we got stuck in the mud...just ride the brakes and then throttle up to overpower the brakes...that works with brakes on all the wheels I bet if you do it on individual wheels it works even better.

My idea is any tire you have spinning you could just throw a switch and hit the brake can with ~50 psi and that would use the differential to send power across to the other tire.

Nice observation on the Fuso’s lockers
Thanks for those insights and that picture! I really appreciate it as it got me thinking a bunch.

Since some guys on here were reporting their inner tubes slipping on stock rims with aired down 395s, would you say it’s actually best to upgrade from stock rims?

For sure there’s no question that doing what these trucks are designed to do -carrying heavy loads off-road- 6x6 is superior, not to mention better looking!
But considering driving unloaded, wouldn’t losing an axle redistribute more weight onto the single rear axle (where before it’s spread between 2 axles) maybe give it some more traction rather than less?

The reason I ask is that a guy I know mentioned seeing unloaded bobbed deuces always climb further than the unloaded 6x6s. He bobbed trucks for a few people and explained that the weight gets redistributed in a way that added traction.

I’m not sure, but it seems like this video shows an example of this effect on weight distribution, when the tires in the bed slide over to the rear axles at 0:50s it coincides with the truck losing traction.

Duce and a half crawls right up it. | By Dan Domski | Facebook

Duce and a half crawls right up it.

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