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DEUCE spin on oil filters!!!!

Banshee365

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Ocala, FL
I started my truck today with new 6TL's since my last batteries died a few weeks ago. After sitting for about 3 weeks the truck took 14 seconds to build pressure from the first indication of ignition to the needle moving. Seems like it takes alot less if you start it at least once a week. Scary. It made a bit of a racket until the pressure built then it went quiet.

-Kelly
 

FSBruva

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Marietta, GA
Banshee365 said:
Seems like it takes alot less if you start it at least once a week. Scary. It made a bit of a racket until the pressure built then it went quiet.

-Kelly
Case in point (attempting not to hijack a thread):

The worst thing you can do to these trucks is let them sit!!!! The best PMS for them is to be driven!!!

Matt
 

nickd

Active member
862
37
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Location
Newport, Delaware
Here are the filter options all with anti drain back features

Napa 1458 16 micron
Hastings LF433 12 micron
Fram PH 44 will advise
WIX 51458 will advise
 

sailor2000

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Houston Texas
So... what is the availability status of these adapters?

Also, kinda OT, if the required amount of oil to fill the system is only about 2 gallons, how about a hand prelube pump? If you have the system 'full' before cranking, the oil pressure should come up immediately with no delay as soon as the engine cranks... no?
 

dabtl

Active member
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Location
Denton, Texas
John Tennis, aka jatonka has them ready to ship.

Prelubing may be the best. I am following the posts on it with interest.
 

jatonka

Well-known member
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Location
Ephratah, New York
Deuce Spin-On Oil Filters

As long as the thread came back up, To up date you guys, I have sold a bunch of sets of these filter adaptors and have put them on 5 of my trucks now. No problems No leaks. My time to pressure is between 2 and 5 seconds, depending on motor condition. I have noticed a very small increase in oil pressure but I think it has a lot to do with new oil in the engine. I am guilty of not changing my oil as often as I should. I don't get many miles or hours on my trucks in a year. I also found the Baldwin BT-124 to be the better spin-on filter as it is 12 Micron rated in the charts but the company tells it's dealers is is actually 10 Micron rated. My kits are in stock, unbelievably easy to install and trouble free. $199 plus $9.00 shipping John Tennis :D
 

houdel

Active member
1,563
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38
Location
Chase, MI
bottleworks said:
I have been running dual remote 51970XD filters sense February. I am getting aprox 3 seconds until pressure.
Therein lies the rub. The remote filtering system by design CAN allow less oil to flow back to the oil pan, thus less oil to refill the system, thus less time to refill the system and achieve normal oil pressure.

Consider these points:

1. The stock Deuce LDT oil pump, in good repair, and in a sound engine, is rated to deliver 22 GPM using OE/HDO-30 at 180F (ref TM 9-2815-204-35-2-1, MAINTENANCE DIRECT SUPPORT AND GENERAL SUPPORT LEVEL ENGINE ASSEMBLY, DIESEL, (MULTIFUEL), page 1-14)(engine rpm not stated, but assumed to be at 2600 engine RPM, as the max oil pressure is rated at 2600 RPM).

2. The Deuce oil pump is a gear type pump, thus oil delivery is approximately proportional to engine RPM.

3. Considering point 1 and 2, at an engine idle speed of approximately 800-850 RPM, the oil delivery is in the neighborhood of roughly 7-8 GPM.

4. Most Deuce owners, with a stock oil filtering system, report a time lag of 14-15 seconds from engine start to start of oil pressure rise.

5. Considering points 3 and 4, a 14-15 second lag time for oil pressure to build indicates an oil delivery of roughly 2 gallons of oil to fill the entire lubrication system (oil filters, oil galleries, and connecting passages) from engine start to start of oil pressure rise.

6. The oil filter cannisters themselves require 1.5 to 2 quarts of oil each to fill (considering the oil filters occupy a fixed volume within the cannister, the volume required to fill each cannister is the absolute volume of the cannister less the volume of the wetted filter). For arguments sake, I will assume 2 quarts net per cannister, or 1 gallon total, to refill both cannisters.

7. Considering points 5 and 6, if roughly two gallons of oil are required to fill the ENTIRE oil system, and one gallon or less is required to refill the oil cannisters, then roughly one gallon of oil is required to fill the oil galleries and connecting passages.

8. Considering points 3, 5, 6 and 7, roughly one gallon worth of oil galleries and connecting passages to fill on engine start up requires UP TO 7-8 seconds of engine run time to fill before engine oil pressure begins to rise.

So what is my point? If you look closely at Bjorn's installation, his remote filters are installed ABOVE his personnel heater, and the supply lines are ABOVE the level of the oil passages in the oil filter base and the oil cooler, so ALL of the oil in his oil galleries and connecting passages, EXCEPT for the oil in the filters themselves, will drain back into the oil pan, as Bjorn noted. Bjorn reports 6-8 seconds of engine run time before engine oil pressure begins to rise, which corresponds EXACTLY with my point #8, given the accuracy of my assumptions of oil volumes and oil flow delivery rates.

On the other hand, were an individual to mount their remote filters BELOW the oil filter base and the oil cooler, LESS oil will drain back, and he engine run time before engine oil pressure begins to rise will be LESS than what Bjorn reported. Thus a 3-6 second lag before engine oil pressure begins to rise is entirely possible with a properly installed remote filter system, regardless of whether such installation is by design or fortunate chance.

I have no disagreement with John Tennis' claims. Properly installed, a remote filter system can reduce the lag time before engine oil pressure begins to rise to a few seconds, but cannot reduce the lag time to zero because the oil galleries will ALWAYS drain back to the oil pan, and there will ALWAYS be a slight lag in oil pressure untill those galleries are filled. But to give John the credit he deserves, a 2-6 second lag is MUCH better than a 14-15 second lag!

Banshee365 said:
After sitting for about 3 weeks the truck took 14 seconds to build pressure from the first indication of ignition to the needle moving. Seems like it takes a lot less if you start it at least once a week.-Kelly
Not possible, unless you have discovered some new laws of physics. It takes roughly two hours for the Deuce oil system to drain completely back into the oil pan. Thus, whether the truck sits two hours, two days, two weeks, two months or two years, it takes EXACTLY the same volume of oil to refill the system and for oil pressure to start to rise. Thus, for all intents and purposes, idle time on the engine has no effect on oil pressure build time. However, there are three variants which can affect the oil pressure rise lag time, oil temperature, oil time at temperature and battery condition.

The first is obvious - warm oil flows faster than cold oil. If you restart a warm engine, or start an engine in a relatively warm environment, say 80F, the oil will flow faster and time to pressure will be quicker than were you to start an engine with oil at 20F or 0F.

The second factor is not well understood. Engine oil has a memory. The longer engine oil remains at a given temperature, the more viscous (thicker) it becomes, within a very limited range. Thus, an engine oil which has been at say 20F for 24 hours will appear less viscous (thinner) than the same engine oil which has been at 20F for two days or two weeks. This effect is more noticed by those of us who live in the cold north. If I start my car every day in very cold weather, it will start fairly easy. However, if I wait several days before starting my car, it will take a bit more cranking before it starts. This is partially due to the oil time at temperature factor and partially due to the battery temperature. A cold battery (or a battery which has sat for a while) will not deliver the cranking amperage of a warm, fully charged battery.

Thus, I would suggest the phenomenon you noticed is a result of the combination of oil which has reached its maximum viscosity due to sitting for a long period of time and batteries which have lost a portion of their charge due to disuse, resulting in a slower cranking speed, both of which will affect oil pressure lag time.
 

cranetruck

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Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Location
Meadows of Dan, Virginia
Good summation Lee.
You may want to add the cold weather considerations, when the drain back original canisters allow you to heat the oil in the oil pan for quicker time-to-pressure.
A pre-lube system retains all the advantages.
 

houdel

Active member
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Location
Chase, MI
cranetruck said:
You may want to add the cold weather considerations, when the drain back original canisters allow you to heat the oil in the oil pan for quicker time-to-pressure. A prelube system retains all the advantages.
Agreed, a spin on anti-drainback or remote filter system can reduce time to pressure by 50%-75%, but only a prelube system will reduce the time to pressure to zero. As Bjorn pointed out, in EXTREME cold weather, say -20F or lower, the oil just ain't going to flow at all unless you preheat the oil first or run some ridiculously lightweight oil like 5W or 10W. However, in such a case the spin on or remote filters will still be filled with unheated, gelled oil. The oil system will then bypass the filters (i.e., NO filtration of the oil) until the filters are warmed enough that the oil entrained in the filters is able to start flowing again.
 

alphadeltaromeo

Active member
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Location
Alto, GA
I installed my spin-ons from Jatonka yesterday (Saturday). I'm extremely pleased with the performance. I tested the system yesterday after the new system was installed and fresh oil was added. Initial oil pressure was the regular 12 seconds. I let it cool down for 3+hours and started it again...looked like 4 seconds, but I was distracted by a lil one so I can't be certain. I checked again after returning from church today...2 seconds before the gauge began moving and 3 seconds to full pressure.

I'm quite pleased indeed. I'll obviously be checking on a regular basis, but with the GA weather, I'm rather pleased with the performance to date and the cold shouldn't be an issue. I think I'd prefer to put a bypass system on prior to the pre-lube...unless I can find an incredible deal for a pre-lube. I have checked each of my gas vehicles that has an oil pressure gauge and the performance is the same...2 seconds to move and 3 to full pressure.

I have also noticed that my speed has increased by at least 5 mph!!! Ok, I'm not being honest :D

Yes, I love the spin-ons from Jatonka...well worth the $199.00.

Andy
 

dabtl

Active member
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Location
Denton, Texas
Cold weather is obviously not a problem in Texas. But, I am going to the Baldwin filters in December's oil change. I change it every six months, probably no more than 500 miles, but oil can go bad with a diesel engine.

Now, when John makes the secondary and final fuel filters adaptable to spin on filters, I will be in deuce heaven.
 

oifvet

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(near) Xenia, Ohio
Reviving an old thread!

Could/would a knowledgable member please explain a little more about the significance of "5 or 6," vs. "15 & up", micron filters?

I know 5 < 15!!! I don't mean that. What I'd like to know is, how critical is it with a 30(+) year old Hercules Multi-fuel enginel? Are we comparing gravel to talcum powder? Or is 5 & 6 micron filtration for motor oil in a deuce getting a little anal?

And..., what is a micron. How big is this guy? Could I take him?

Thanks in advance! Now standing-by.
 

n1vbn

New member
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Location
derry,NH
OK Guys,

You REALLY want to clean your oil? Here is the easiest way to do it with one small addition to the engine. It will cost more than a few dinero but you will learn to love it. The road truck I drove for one full year used a factory installation Mack engines have all
been equipped with factory centrifuges mounted outboard of the two oil filters and when serviced I ran no BS 62,000 miles between oil changes and was only down 2 quarts of oil when it was drained. The centrifuge keeps all heavy particulates out of the oil. The particulates are what lifts the oil wiper ring on the piston and lets oil into the combustion chamber to burn. Read the testimonials and decide for yourself.





http://www.dieselcraft.com/

A tested a proven centrifuge that mounts under the hood of your truck...holds up to 10.5 ounces of dirt and continuously cleans the motor oil down to
1/10th of a micron. Use the cheaper oil filers and this centrifuge will keep the crud out and is very easy to service.

Only cross to bear is the cost to buy it. When I get my Deuce it WILL have one installed.

I am including a forum where the guys are using this centrifuge to clean WASTE VEGETABLE OIL before using it as fuel.

Cranetruck take note!!

Why screw around with filters when the system is now complete....screw on adapters for the oil filters and one installed centrifuge to remove the crud
and make the engine clean as you want inside.


Keep em movin'
 
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