DEUCE spin on oil filters!!!!

[Armada]

i sometimes wonder what will become of it if I am gone.

You could always be buried in it, Patrick! You could leave the communication equipment on and we could send messages! lol
Of course, then you'd have to buy a whole section of a cemetary just to have enough room to put it in the ground.....

 

[cranetruck]

I need to clearify, of course the truck should last for years and years or decades, but not without service. There will always be something to maintain.
I have easily put more than 1,000 hours on my deuce since I brought it home from Camp Lejeune, NC in 1995 and it has never let me down. Even with fuel mixed in with the fuel, it keeps on going and it's already 40 years old.
So I have to do some maintenance work now and then, but there is no one thing that will get it fixed forever, I'm pretty sure of that.
If "dry starts" are a problem, then get a pre-lube system installed, there are plenty of them on the market, one should fit.

We have seen how tricky oil filtering can be from D-man's posts, what about the micron rating, seems like it depends on the pressure drop across the filter(s), I'd like to see some graphs here showing pressure vs micron rating and also a used filter may filter small particles better than it does when new, with a build-up of debris, soot or whatever. There are bound to be compromises here. Multigrade oils are themselves compromises. In military service, a different grade was specified depending on ambient temperature.

The pressure drop across the two original filters is about half of that measured across the new XD filter, so what's the actual micron rating of either? Reading about the subject, you'll see that just looking at the oil to determine how good a lubricant it is, is not a good evaluation, the color is meaningless. A spectrochemical analysis (the lab report) does not take size of particles into account. If it did, and a filter was able to filter out traces of metal, the report could not indicate bearing wear problems, sort of a catch 22.
BTW, this is how I would begin a typical article, with ideas thrown out and asking myself stupid questions, but I have very little expertice on this subject, so I will not take the time to research and write about it. Perhaps we can get some expert answers here instead.

 

[houdel]

What is the definition of a dry start?
If an engine is started after being off for a few minutes, is it still a "dry start"? Apparently UPS has no problem with shutting down and restarting their engines 40 or more times/day.
The bearings remain lubed after a shut down, the question is for how long, a day or a week?

I found the following information in a Fleetguard product brochure. Although it was excerpted from a bypass filter brochure, it is pertinent to the "dry start" discussion. Take it for what it is worth.

"The majority of engine wear occurs during cold starts.... This is due to the time it takes for full oil pressure to reach critical components. Although wear points will still have a residual coating of oil even when the sump has been drained during oil change, full oil pressure is required to prevent additional wear. The pressure drop associated with the filtration system impacts the time it takes for full oil pressure to reach all components." (emphasis added)

http://www.fleetguard.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/LT15094.pdf

 

[houdel]

The pressure drop across the two original filters is about half of that measured across the new XD filter, so what's the actual micron rating of either?

The pressure drop differential is not too surprising, since the original filter set-up has two filter elements in parallel vs a single filter element with the remote filter installation. If there were room to parallel two remote filters, the pressure drop across the paralleled remote XD filters should drop to about 1/4 of a single remote XD filter, or 1/2 the pressure drop of the stock oil filter installation.

For those who may be interested, here is a link to a Fleetguard brochure explaining the Beta ratio for hydraulic filters:

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/asia_pacific_brochures/fs_hydraulic-beta-ratio.pdf

 

[alphadeltaromeo]

A spectrochemical analysis (the lab report) does not take size of particles into account. If it did, and a filter was able to filter out traces of metal, the report could not indicate bearing wear problems, sort of a catch 22.

On my deuce I have the "test port" valve for sampling oil right...so not knowing the flow of the oil, I'm assuming it's pre-filter. Am I incorrect? If correct, then the sample would be fine for analysis I'd imagine.

Andy

 

[cranetruck]

Andy,
The sampling valve is usually installed on the oil cooler on top, which is the after filter and after cooler oil.

 

[alphadeltaromeo]

So according to your picture...it would seem that one could put the sampling valve on the pre-filter oil port to get the best understanding of whats happening...or am I missing something here?

 

[JasonS]

Most diesels last hundreds of thousands of miles on "compromise" 15W40 oil. Delivery trucks have dozens of "dry starts" daily and still seem to last. I think that the "dry start" is being blown out of proportion. The bearings ride on a wedge of oil which doesn't establish until the engine is rotating. Prelubing doesn't fix THAT problem. The engine is pressurized to make sure that there is oil there to form the wedge of oil. The 216 chevy engine with dipper rods did fine as long as it wasn't abused. In college, there was a raffle to guess how long a SBC could run without oil. No one won because after an hour it was still going strong. Has anyone really analyzed why and how the multifiels fail????? It seems like you are throwing bandaids at a problem without really identifying or understanding the problem.

 

[OPCOM]

This activity is a kind of science experiment. The results should come later in the form of abnormally long engine life (or not) for this usually short-lived engine. Not that anyone is keeping notes..

 

[cranetruck]

So according to your picture...it would seem that one could put the sampling valve on the pre-filter oil port to get the best understanding of whats happening...or am I missing something here?

Andy, it doesn't matter where you sample the oil, what you see in the analysis is the result from (hundreds) of hours of engine operation, but I wouldn't take it from the oil pan drain, where part of the oil may not be in circulation.

 

[SierraHotel]

So, what is the "usual" lifespan of a multifuel (hours/miles)?
And is due to dirty oil or Soldier A or B saying 'close enough for government work', 'can't see it from my house', just not knowing any better or not caring?

 

[nickd]

UPDATE!

Hastings spin on filter #LF433 is a 12 micron filter equivelent to the NAPA with a better micron rating

 

[OD_Coyote]

nickd - Please add me to the list of folks that want a set of adapters.

Thanks,
OD_C

 

[devilman96]

The term "micron" means nothing when it comes to a filters ability to filter... What is the filters beta rating? Is there lab data on this truck? What did the base line testing show on the engine before installing them? What are you seeing now?

I've said many times in the past that I will eventually get around to making a straight spin on plate set like seen in the thread but I will use something more prevalent to bettering the life of the engine. If the adapters were made in a 1 1/2 - 12 or 14 thread it would put them into the commercial filter sizes that today's trucks run and get you the advantage of filters that perform to much higher standards.

I've been kinda watching this for a while now and I am a bit perplexed... What is it that interests you guys in dropping almost $300 for a filter that really isn't going to perform any better than the stock filter set up does now?

 

[cranetruck]

Mike, it all comes down to selling.

 

[houdel]

To me it comes down to 2-3 seconds for full oil pressure vs 15-20 seconds for full oil pressure. To repeat the quotation I posted from Fleetguard above:

"The majority of engine wear occurs during cold starts.... This is due to the time it takes for full oil pressure to reach critical components".

My cannister filters will drain down in 1-2 hours if the oil is fully warm. So if I fire up the Deuce for a trip and make a couple of stops along the way, I have run my engine for a full minute without oil pressure. $200 - $300 for a set of filters that don't drain down beats $2000 - $3000 for an engine rebuild!

 

[alphadeltaromeo]

I concur with houdel here. Either system, remote or spin-on, interests me very much. I do think the ease of installation, less parts and more space savings are making me lean to the spin-on's. I'd add that I'll be pursuing AMSOIL for a bypass filter system as well. I think the combination will make an excellent choice for longevity, coupled with good PM of course.

Andy

 

[FSBruva]

devilman was not so subtley hinting that for $300, you could get a certain filter system with drastically improved filtration capabilities.....

 

[OD_Coyote]

I am interested for the same reasons houdel and alphadeltaromeo stated. I also like jatonka's solution because it is KISS.

 

[JDToumanian]

To me it comes down to 2-3 seconds for full oil pressure vs 15-20 seconds for full oil pressure.

...Although ultimately I want a bypass filter and pre-lube system...