Deuce v. 5-ton for a bob-job

[mtk]

Hello everyone,

I'm a newbie to the site and to military vehicles in general, but some recent buying opportunities and a few hours spent surfing around here has me thinking of changing that fact. While I know this is the "Deuce hot rod forum," I didn't see much in the 5-ton forum on bob jobs so I figured this would be the better place for my questions.

I'm seriously considering picking up a Deuce or two in the near future.

If I do, I'd like to keep one relatively stock and I'd like to turn the other into a "bobber" with a M105 bed on it.

Yes, I know that is heresy to some purists, but I've seen quite a few photos of them and they look like they'd be an absolute hoot to have around and a lot more useful than a longer, 6x6 truck.

So far, I've managed to give myself a quick, crash course in these trucks, but I'm still looking for some information in regards to how the Deuces and 5-ton trucks compare. Can someone tell me what GVWR the Deuce and 5-tons get registered at when privately owned?

One concern I have is on the registration of a bobbed truck. From what I've read, a Deuce weighs between 8k and 10k lbs, depending on bed choice and such, when bobbed. What GVWR does a bobbed Deuce get on its registration paperwork?

I was thinking of bobbing a 5-ton, rather than a Deuce, so that the resulting truck would have a higher allowable GVWR due to the larger 5-ton axles under it. But the flip side is, how much heavier would a bobbed 5-on be than a bobbed Deuce, assuming they're cut & modified in a similar manner?

I guess is boils down to this: which is the better bob-job candidate: a Deuce or a 5-ton, and why?

Any input you can offer would be most appreciated.

 

[dm22630]

I guess is boils down to this: which is the better bob-job candidate: a Deuce or a 5-ton, and why?

Deuces.

More experience from members here to help, lots of pics of the process, costs MUCH less, more deuces available, parts are cheap & easy to find.

 

[Andydieselpower]

Although we have never bobbed any of our trucks I thought I would chime in. I guess it all depends on what you want to do with your truck. Are you going to use it to haul heavy loads in the bed? Are you going to install substantially larger tires? Are you going to be pulling heavy trailers or plowing through really deep mud?

One thing to consider with an M809 (Cummins Pwr) series 5 ton for bobbing is that you have a motor that is almost twice the displacement and HP/Torque than the stock multifuel in the M35. The HP increase that the 5 ton has gives you the ability to run the big 1600's without a giagantic power loss. The 5 ton can fit the 1600's without suspension mods and has power steering as standard. The flipside would be the fuel economy would still be around 6-7 mpg I'm guessing on a bobbed 5 ton where the M35 should get 11-12. If you plan on driving your bobbed truck alot the lesser fuel economy of a 5 ton could add up when fuel prices start to rise again.

I personally think both M35 and 5 ton trucks looks cool as bobbed and both have their own niche.

Andy

 

[mtk]

OK, you lost me a bit on that one.

The actual mechanics of bobbing them look to be the same. Moving spring mounts, cutting the frame, etc. That stuff seems identical to me. I can't see any reason why a 5-ton would be any different than a Deuce in that regard.

Do you mean things like "use the M105 springs for the single rear axle" would no longer apply with a 5-ton truck? Because that was what I was thinking, even on the 5-ton truck. Use the front perches from a Deuce and the springs off of the M105 donor trailer to bob the 5-ton.

Honestly, one big appeal of the 5-ton truck is the 5-ton axles under it. But my concern is that the end result would end up significantly heavier than a bobbed Deuce and that GVWR issues would result in a truck with a 500lb payload capacity to it. But if the heavier axles of the 5-ton would result in a significantly higher GVWR of the bobbed truck, then the extra weight penalty of the heavier axles might be worth it. In other words, if the bobbed 5-ton is 1000lbs heavier but has a 2000lb higher GVWR, then it is a worthwhile tradeoff.

Either way, I do appreciate the input.

 

[dm22630]

I like 5 tons MUCH better......but.....the front weighs a LOT more & will sink in the mud (as I recently found out.....30 seconds to get stuck, 10 hours to get unstuck).

If you do a 5 ton truck....make sure you get one with a winch or you will be very sorry.

 

[mtk]

The bobber will be getting larger "super singles" and most likely be used as an offroad playtoy and firewood hauler. Tires will most likely be "395's" as the consensus seems to be that they're as large as can be used without some type of lift on the truck.

I'm not particularly concerned about fuel economy as this isn't going to be a daily driver for the most part.

As for the winch, yes, I was planning on a winch-equipped truck as a starting point since I plan on doing my best to get this thing stuck whenever possible.

Of course, there is something to be said for having two matching Deuces, one "stock" and one "bobbed."

So many decisions, so little time....

 

[jwaller]

if I had a choice I'd go 5T.
here's why

larger truck!
you can fit 1600 tires without modification
can run 70mph with 1600's and not slow down on the hills.
power steering
more weight capacity
bigger winch
bigger brakes with much better stopping ability
way more ground clearance


did I mention it's bigger?

 

[kc5mzd]

The max GVWR allowed on a regular drivers license in most states is 26,000. If you want anyone to be able to drive it on the street you should take the weight into serious consideration. Not to mention the insurance issues...

The 2.5 ton weighs about 13,500 empty. Bobbed it will weigh about 11,000. With a 5,000 payload the GVWR will be about 16,000 to 18,000. It will be well under the 26,000 limit for a regular drivers license.

The 5 ton weighs about 24,000 empty. This leaves only 2,000lb payload if you register it for less than 26,000 GVWR. Bobbed you may be able to cut about 3,000lbs. This would still leave you with a max GVWR of 5,000lbs if you wanted to register it under the 26,000 limit.

Unless you and everyone you will ever want to be able to drive it has a class A or B drivers license you should probably consider the deuce option. Also insurance and registration costs will go up rapidly with the heavier trucks.

 

[rockman]

MTK, welcome to the site. I lived in Finleyville for about 9 years until moving 2 years ago. My neighbor Dave, has a M35 if you want to see one. He is on Munntown Road in the "600 house numbers".

Steve in Elizabeth as both sizes so look him up also.

Bill

 

[mtk]

I'm aware of the 26,000lb GVWR limit on a normal driver's license.

What I'm unsure of, is exactly what GVWR one can register one of these at, particularly once it has been bobbed.

With any other vehicle, the GVWR is set by the manufacturer. With heavy trucks, axle weight ratings typically also play a role in that calculation and frequently the GVWR of the truck is the sum total of the GAWR's of the truck's axles. So if you remove one axle, the new GVWR is equal to the old rating, minus the rating of the axle you removed. Along with a mountain of state paperwork, of course.

In this case, I have no idea what GVWR an unmodified Deuce or 5-ton (is there a slang term like "Deuce" for the 5-ton trucks? "5-ton" just doesn't roll off of the tongue like "Deuce" does....) would be registered at in the "civilian" world. I'm guessing that a Deuce would be at 26,000lbs while a 5-ton would probably be at 36,000 or some other number into the "Class A" license realm, which as you said, creates licensing hassles.

But if you pull one axle off of both, what GVWR's can you end up with for both? This may also be a state-by-state issue as some states seem to let you register it for whatever you want (as long as they get the money) while others seem to insist upon some data to justify the registration. For example, the only way to increase the GVWR on my F350, over Ford's rating, is to modify the truck and retitle it as a modified or specialty vehicle. I can't just pony up more cash and increase it from 9,900lbs to 12,000lbs without making physical changes to the truck.

Bobbed Deuces seem to weigh between 8k and 11k, depending on how short and what bed you choose to use. The M105-bedded Deuces seem to come in closer to the 8k number than the 11k (from what I've read on here). I've yet to find a post giving a weight for a bobbed 5-ton truck.

But I very much do see you're point about truck weight versus payload weight. I went through a similar thing when deciding between my F350 and a similarly-equipped F250. The F350 had a GVWR of 9900lbs, while the F250 had a GVWR of 8800lbs. Yet the two trucks weighed about the same. So getting the F350 got me 1100lbs of extra payload capacity with no other real penalties other than cost (both purchase and registration).

If I go with a Deuce, will the allowable GVWR (after removing an axle) be too low to work with the 8-11k truck weight? Conversely, if I go with a 5-ton, will the truck be too heavy, even with the higher GVWR.

I'd also be lying if I said the extra power that comes with a 5-ton truck isn't also a feature, along with the power steering. The though of wrestling 40"+ tires off-road with manual steering sounds like a fine way to get an arm workout.

Last but not least, is the whole 2.5T versus 5T axle issue even worth discussing? I know the 2.5T axles are considered "bulletproof" when installed in a Jeep rock crawler or something, but is that also the case in a 10,000 bobbed Deuce?

I do appreciate you all taking the time to give me your input.

 

[mtk]

MTK, welcome to the site. I lived in Finleyville for about 9 years until moving 2 years ago. My neighbor Dave, has a M35 if you want to see one. He is on Munntown Road in the "600 house numbers".

Steve in Elizabeth as both sizes so look him up also.

Bill

Hello Bill,

Funny, but a friend and I were discussing "Dave" just the other day.

No, I've never met the man, but I have seen his M35 in the driveway and it is part of what got me on this kick to be honest!

As in, "I've GOT to get me one of THOSE!"

 

[dm22630]

In Virginia you are EXEMPT from CDL requirements IF you are using for personal use only. You can NOT do anything to make $$$ (including "farm use").

I have talked with the DOT officials & state police at the weigh station. Both told me I can drive my M818 w/M872 40ft semi trailer LOADED with my stuff & I have no CDL requirements.

I have a regular drivers license.

 

[JasonS]

My bobbed deuce weighs 8k with the M105 bed and gas engine. In SD, I am the one who sets the GVW and pay accordingly with the licensing. I chose it as 10k because above that my insurance company didn't want to insure it.

 

[sirmrtow]

in indiana if it is over 26001 gvw you have to have a cdl no matter what you do with it

 

[madsam]

I am contemplating bobbing a 5t too on a project I am doing. I think you could not use an m105 bed and have it look as nice as on a deuce. I was thinking cutting the original bed.. maybe. There was some pics here of a bobbed 5ton someone had done.

As far as weight, In Colorado, if the truck is older than 20 years, you can call it a classic truck and not pay by weight to register. I only pay $65 per year for registration on a m816 which is 36000 lbs. You have to agree not to haul anything and only keep it for shows, ... yea what ever. As long as I am not using it as a business, I am not worried. (I don't think the cops know or care as long as it is registered. )

I have a CDL, so I don't worry about that.

 

[madsam]

I was going to bob a five ton until I realized the massive scale of the work to do it.Get under one and look it over good and make sure you have help a person could get seriously hurt or worse.A deuce is another story I have done a few of them just like working on a big pick up truck.My 818 I was going to bob is instead going to get a deuce bed put on it and I think it will be a lot more useful that way.

Will a deuce bed fit on a 5ton? Would not the tires stick out? Maybe that would be altunitive to bobbing my 818- with a son to be Detroit 8v92 in it.

 

[mtk]

Is there a frame difference between the two?

The frame rail width on commercial trucks is an industry-wide constant, which makes life easy on the utility body manufacturers.

Honestly, I figured these had to be the same, particularly when I've read that the cab parts are largely interchangable. Wheel track dimensions on both are almost certainly the same, since both trucks are 96" wide.

Given all that, I'm operating under the assumptions that the frame rail widths are the same and that the 5-ton frame is either thicker, taller, or both, to give it the larger load-carrying ability.

I should also mention that part of these assumptions come from a photograph I came across of a bobbed 5-ton with a M105 bed on it. Now, I'll fully admit that I can't say for certain that it was a 5-ton in the pic (I'm hardly the expert on that front) but the photo was offered up as a pic of a bobbed 5-ton and no one called "BS" on it and said otherwise.

With all that said, I saw the Bad News Bears and know what "ass-u-me" means so feel free to set me straight if I've got it wrong.

 

[kc5mzd]

Most states are going to a Federally recommended "classified" license system. For private use vehicles over 26,000 or 26,001 would require a regular class B license. To pull a trailer over 10,000 or 20,000 depending on use would require a regular class A. If you use it in a business, then you would have to get a commercial class A or B license.
After 911 the federal government started making a lot of changes. At some point I think the Federal Government is expecting all the states to adopt new laws that conform to their "framework". They want any state to be able to look up your driving record regardless of which state issued it. Long story short if you don't need a regular class A or B DLS in your state you probably will soon.
Most states will let you register a truck for less than the MFR's max GVWR without much trouble. If you try to register it for more they want to make sure it is safe to carry the extra weight.
Having said that I personally like the 5-ton idea although the hood is longer and it might look out of proportion with a small M105 bed.

 

[Sumoman]

I like 5 tons MUCH better......but.....the front weighs a LOT more & will sink in the mud (as I recently found out.....30 seconds to get stuck, 10 hours to get unstuck).

I am not laughing at you, rather I am laughing with you

Hey the power difference after a BOB and placing bigger tires, really what are you going to see in terms of speed, etc. Just interested.

 

[vtach]

For those of you that have registered your bobbed deuces, what are you stating for the GVW? Are you even mentioning that an axle has been removed? Seems that might raise some flags at the DMV, like is it still safe to drive?