Engine Prelube Info....

[houdel]

Engine Prelubricator

Following are some pics Dmetalmiki sent me of the engine prelubricator which came installed on his M62 wrecker. He has a problem posting pics so he sent them to me to post for him. It was first mentioned in the "Check Valve for Oil Filters?" thread in the mods/hot rodding forum. Following are his posts from the original thread. I know no more about this prelubricator than what he wrote in the following, but I'm sure he will respond to any questions in this thread.

"Can I place some input here...The M62 I purchased Saturday.. has an ELECTRIC PUMP mounted on chassis frame.. (BIG motor bout same size as a large car starter coupled to a hydraulic pump which DRAWS OIL from back of sump AND DELIVERS IT TO BASE (OF oil filter HOUSINGS> SO,, CLICK ON (second) master switch flick down "PRIME" switch..wait 20/30 seconds..(sounds REAL BEEFY NO-NONSENSE pumping motion at this juncture!!..then regular master switch..PUSH START..and..WHAM (fires fist time!) and OIL PRESSURE SHOOTS STRAIGHT UP)...I will take pics and try post em later today..NOW THATS A NO NONSENSE (worry eliminating) modification...(and was performed by the M.O.D. here in U.K.) when this truck was in service with disposal depot MOLESWORTH." 04/08/2007

"as said in my description the (well made and top quality) pipe runs to the back of the rear sump...this mod was carried out by M.O.D. (ministry of defence) army depot molesworth. (vehicle disposal site!) as this truck was seconded to the britt/army before disposal!" 04/08/2007

 

[jimk]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

That rubber oil line on/above/near the turbo exhaust housing worries me.

That start up is the hardest part of a engine bearings life,especially for an engine that may sit a long time.
It can be run to lube and cool the turbo after [fast] shut down.
A pal has used an aftermarket system(kit) on his car, 20Y now.
An accumulator can do the same job too. JimK

 

[WillWagner]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

Here's just 1 of many available.

http://www.prelube.com/

 

[dmetalmiki]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

Note. the "rubber"! pipe ENCLOSES steel wire clad metalistic hose..20k pressure margin. (like jcb/hydraulic stuff)

 

[bottleworks]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

But what's the temp rating of that hose?

 

[dmetalmiki]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

well our test rigs ran 21000 psi on impulse to destruction tests( two relief valves to set impulse and pulse delay)per 15 seconds down to twice per/sec temperatures up to 200c mind bogglin stuff...gues thats ok for an M62!?...on the seriouse side tho..I am seriously considering putting this pre-primer on all my other M trucks. at this point in time i have filters 2" high! same instant pressure..oil filtered thro block pressure (oil guage)take off point ..NO MORE frightning delays!

 

[cranetruck]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

I think Bottleworks is wondering about the hose near the turbo housing...

 

[devilman96]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

A educated guess on hose temp rating would be 300+... Thats proably about 6+ inches from the manifold and Im sure fine temp wise.

The www.prelube.com link mentioned above is errr umm kinda of a piece... The pumps are small chemical pumps generally used on ATV mounted 30 gallon sprayers ya see at places like tractor supply and Northern Tool. 12V and cost about $100, it would take several minutes of pumping to make a dent in the system with one. They do work for transferring oil, I use one to filter off WEO quite often but the flow rate is incredibly low.

 

[ARMYMAN30YearsPlus]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

Wouldn't a small hydraulic pump just love to fill this bill turning at a lower RPM than rated and only pumping motor oil for a few minutes? I am thinking a pump rigged with a lovejoy coupling would do fine with just about any good sized motor and the right torque. The hardest part would be making the right fittings for the pan and the filters.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

oh oh! a small pony engine, with a hydraulic pump, and then clutch geared to engage the starter to start the big engine!!!

I just love big 'ole machines with little finicky pony engines!!!

But on a serious note, I really do want to put a pre-lube pump on my truck. Even if it is 'designed' for a dry start, extra lube would do much more good than harm. Also that coastdown of the turbo worries me.... On the ships we have an electric pre-lube pump, and we are required to run it until we get pressure before start up, and turn it back on prior to shutdown for the turbo coast down. Now of course this is for the big 12-16 cylinder diesels for the gens on big ships and main prop on smaller ships. But a diesel is a diesel, and bearings are bearings.

 

[devilman96]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

Just for the record... Im workin on it....

 

[FSBruva]

RE: Engine Prelubricator

.... then it's as good as done!!!

As one of the members with no workshop, metal lathe, or fabricating skills, I just want to take this opportunity to thank you, DM, for all the work you're doing for process improvement. There ain't no way I would be able to come up with, or have the gumption to try, just ONE of the many things you are willing to take on.

THANKS!

Matt

 

[OPCOM]

Re: RE: Engine Prelubricator

Here's just 1 of many available.

http://www.prelube.com/

what is the thread on the deuce oil pan plug? kinda big-ish..

 

[jimk]

A educated guess on hose temp rating would be 300+... Thats proably about 6+ inches from the manifold and Im sure fine temp wise.

Run long enough, hot enough, the housing will glow. U may never get the chance to see this because of the time it takes to slow down, park, set the brake, get out, open the hood...

Heat energy emitted is both convection (hot air) and infar-red (radiation). The latter travels thru the air at TSOLight and will be absorbed (and partially reflected) by other [probably alread hot] objects in the line of sight. Darker colors like black, and closer objects, tend to absorb the most. Radiation is present at lower temps as well. [Hopefully just] The first four temps are within EGT range.

glowing iron-
Red heat, visible in the dark -- 752*F
Red heat, visible in the twilight -- 885
Red heat, visible in the daylight -- 975
Red heat, visible in the sunlight -- 1077
Dark red -- 1292
Dull cherry-red -- 1472
Cherry-red -- 1652
Bright cherry-red --1832
Orange-red -- 2012
Orange-yellow -- 2192
Yellow-white -- 2372
White welding heat -- 2552
Brilliant white -- 2732
Dazzling white (Bluish-white) -- 2912

JimK

p.s. the high press hydraulic hoses I use have a press rating ~4000psi / temp rating ~ 212*F. None use hose clamps.

http://www.gates.com/index.cfm?location_id=3440

 

[dmetalmiki]

OHHH RITE!! NOW I see the "offending pipe"..and YES " B...y close! well spotted....Jimpk..YA know what..ass a MISTRY that one..(remember I only had this wrecker 2 weeks)..NOW gents..just WHAT do we (all) think that bit of kit iz for..?(as) IT runs FROM the rocker cover...breather outlet..across and down PAST the turbo ((and YES its GONNA get RE-positioned))to the (a) BOX (can?) sealed recepticle...bout a litre size...then it goes to....(????? OH shucks...goze down and outside climbs truck..lifts hood..SHIVERS!(its 11-30pm!).OH..NOW i see!!..shuts hood goze back to computer!!)....."the air intake after the air cleaner/filter"..never seen that B4..spose In 50 years?? the "can" mite? eventualy fill up ..with..blow by oil..THO..of course..IF NO blowby.......story ends..

 

[Flatlander]

I'm not sure what that box is, but it's entertaining to read your description of it!

 

[Flatlander]

What about the pressurized lube system? www.autoenginelube.com I'm not sure how this is better than using a powered electric pump...anyone have experience with either?

 

[SasquatchSanta]

Flatlander Wrote:

What about the pressurized lube system? www.autoenginelube.com

I just finished reading through their website. It certainly is simple --- easy to install.

They say the system will work with 6, 12, or 24 volt systems but doesn't explain how or why it is multi/volt compatible.

More importantly, I question whether the system would be effective (would work) with the stock deuce canisters.

If the majority ofl the priming oil will be required to fill the voids in the empty canisters before oil can be expressed into the gallery/bearing surfaces the system isn't going to be effective

Their directions call for plumbing into the block at the oil pressure gage port. Given the canisters, perhaps the oil pressure port is the best plaec to plumb-in ... perhaps it isn't.

Depending on how the oil galley is designed, perhaps plumbing in to another location on the block would automatically send more oil to the bearings

I also am interested in hearing opinions on this system: www.autoenginelube.com ?

 

[Flatlander]

How much do the canisters hold? That site has a system that can hold 2.5 quarts pressurized...I doubt the filters hold that much, but I don't know for sure. Maybe the prelubicator system with a pump drive would be better? I want my motor to last as long as possible, with fuel costs rising I don't want to have to shell out for a new one any time soon!

 

[cranetruck]

Between the oil canisters and the oil cooler (1/2 quart), you are looking at about 3 quarts.