Engine shut off/locked up. Will not crank.

[nk14zp]

 

[m-35tom]

clean oil is perfectly normal, it will take a few hundred miles to start getting black and maybe a 1000 to get really black.
high oil pressure is also normal since there are combinations of senders and gauges that do not go togeather, but are used by the unknowing. if it was showing oil pressure then it was ok. the oil sender is at the last place to get oil, a common practice. anything over 10 psi per 1000 rpm is enough to prevent failure, although it should be more.

tom

 

[JJensen]

Man! You guys are on it. Thanks again for all the advice and suggestions. I know that all of our speculation is just that until I actually work on it, but I like knowing where to start and having a list of things to check.

Oddshot, you are right, she is a very observant. She has spent the last 7 years racing with me. She can tell you many things about how a car sounds, chassis set up etc... She is one of a kind.

jwright, thanks for the offer. The truck is in near warrensburg, but that is where it needs to be for me to work on it. I can't keep it at my house.

m35-tom, you may be right. When I shifted from 2nd to 3rd is when I noticed all smoke and started to hear something. Then I shifted to 4th, took off my ear muffs, and heard all the racket. But it sounded as if I didn't have it all the way in gear. I tried 4th again and it felt odd. I honestly can't remember if it was changing engine RPM. It all happened so quickly. When this all started happening, the first thing that clicked in my head was that the trans was eating itself. But if it is stuck in 2nd, what would have caused all of the smoke?



rickf, I agree that if the sparks were from the engine there would have to be some serious signs of a problem on the outside of it. Like a new ventilation hole somewhere LOL

 

[3dAngus]

Sparks are fire in bits and pieces. They generate heat. Heat around components cause discoloration. Look well. If the gen. bearings went out and it froze up, ate up the belt while moving down the road frozen, there would be signs of burnt carbon somewhere around the generator. Remove the belt and turn the gen, see if it is frozen.

Could still be something simple.

 

[Flyingvan911]

My oil gauge will peg also until the oil warms up. 60 psi gauge and probably a 120 psi sender. Once the engine warms up the pressure goes down to 15-20 at idle and pegs once more at highway speeds.

My fuel heater nozzle let a bunch of diesel into the crankcase one morning on the way to an airsoft game. The oil level was up to the work "about" on the dipstick. I also had oil leaking out of the front seal and flying around the engine compartment. (That's how I found out I has a problem. I had to drive it back home about 50 miles. The level didn't rise on the return trip. I guess about 4 quarts of diesel or so in the crankcase.

I drained the oil and capped the fuel heater lines. There was no metal in the oil and the engine seems to have suffered no ill effects. There has been no more fuel in the crankcase.

I would think at highway speeds, the multifuel would burn through the belts before the belts stopped the engine from turning.

It the rear main bearing seazed up would the sparks shoot out of the drain hole for the bell housing?

In trying to start the truck, you disengage the clutch. If it was a tranny/driveline problem, I would think the engine would start then bog down when you engage the clutch.

I don't know what else on the engine could through sparks without leaving some obvious traces. Could they come out the slobber tube? Could the air compressor shoot sparks out of its intake it the comp. seazes up?

I will be out of town until the middle of March but when I get back I would be glad to help if I have anything to contribute.

 

[JJensen]

The engine didn't actually quit running, what I am calling lock up, until I was almost stopped with the engine idling. I haven't looked at much of anything honestly. By the time we got the truck back home, I was running on 4 hours of sleep in 72 hours. I had been up for 2 days straight.

It would have to be some serious engine failure to cause the smoke and sparks. I've had 1600 HP engines let go at over 9000 RPM and they don't do what this did. They also didn't make as much noise LOL. My father had me diagnose a problem with his car last year. It had a slight knock under a load. He drove it for 3 days like that. Once I determined it was the engine, I pulled it out. It had 2 rod bearings completely beat out of it. It was still running and just making noise. Look at how long the cash for clunker cars ran with NO oil in them. They were beating themselves to death for 10, 20, 30 mins. When a bearing starts to go, you normally have quite a bit of noise before it would lock up. I had another small block ford completely eat the thrust out of the motor. Crank was grinding on the block. It had over an 1/8th inch of end play .010 is normal. That engine was still running over 170 in the 1/4 before I took it out and found that. What I am getting at, is that unless this is some crazy fluke, there would have been a longer period of beating and knocking before it locked up.

If it is an accessory, there will be plenty of belt dust. It will be easy to diagnose by just spinning the accessories as quite a few have mentioned.

When I barely tried to crank the engine, I didn't disengage the clutch, I just had the trans in neutral. So it could be the clutch assembly or the trans. Seeing if it will crank with the clutch disengaged will be the first check I do when I get back to the truck.

I should know soon.

Thanks again for all the help and advice. I know I keep saying that, but I mean it. You guys have been a huge help. I can tell that there is a huge knowledge base here with everyone being very helpful.

I am looking forward to getting deeper into this truck, and my new hobby.

 

[JCKnife]

Tagging in for your updates.

 

[WillWagner]

Compression is a tad different from spark. When a rod bearing goes in a compression engine, it will not run long without a giant failure..lots more pressure involved. My speculation is other than engine. Follow Gimp and Toms advice. You sound skilled, I think you'd know the smell of the oil if you had a bearing failure. I have seen cranks break, not spin bearings, make HUGE noises and lock the engine..just sayin'. Hope it is a simple fix for ya. Keep us posted

 

[KsM715]

It could be that when you hit the start button your batteries were shot so It wouldnt turn over making you think its locked up.

The oil dripping out of the bellhousing maybe completely unrelated to whats going on and maybe just an over filled tranny.

Best of luck to ya.

 

[TexMc]

Good luck !

 

[panshark]

if 2nd gear is the culprit, and there is no nuetral, then getting towed to the next exit would have been done with...the clutch depressed? the T-case in nuetral?

I know some ignorant people who would probably tow it up to speed, pop the clutch and see if they can get the engine to "break free."

 

[gimpyrobb]

Heh, funny things happen when cranks snap. The motor in my wrecker kept running. I called DH and he asked if I was washing bricks in my washing machine, thats how noisey it was! Don't forget to take your camera with you when you look into it, we all love pics, especially carnage. I hope its something easy.

 

[JJensen]

Compression is a tad different from spark. When a rod bearing goes in a compression engine, it will not run long without a giant failure..lots more pressure involved. My speculation is other than engine. Follow Gimp and Toms advice. You sound skilled, I think you'd know the smell of the oil if you had a bearing failure. I have seen cranks break, not spin bearings, make HUGE noises and lock the engine..just sayin'. Hope it is a simple fix for ya. Keep us posted

I definitely agree with you. But, the race engines I'm talking about though were 10:1 compression and over 30 pounds of boost. So over 30:1 compression. Also running at 8000-9000 RPM. Engines can do some pretty crazy things and stay running. I had one that came out of a running/racing car. Took the crank out for a freshen, and the snout completely fell off. It was broke from the #1 main journal forward. It had zero signs of an engine failure.

KsM715, I also think that the oil out of the bell could be unrelated. The previous owner serviced everything recently. Batteries could be low, especially if the generator was taking a crap. Good thought. The headlights stayed bright for over an hour after this though. Not sure on a 24V system if the lights could stay bright, but the voltage/amperage be too low to crank the engine, especially with something locked up.

panshark, I think I posted something along your line of thinking also. We towed it 2 miles with the clutch engaged (pedal not depressed) with no noise or it trying to turn over the engine/skid the rear tires. So unless something siezed and then sheared, it isn't in the trans or T-case.

gimpyrobb........so you guys are going to be excited to see the the carnage if I KO'd the engine or trans? I'm kidding. I'll definitely take some pics of whatever I find. Hopefully the engine isn't smoke checked.....anything else won't be bad. I just don't want to have to find a "good" engine and have it shipped. I want to get this thing bobbed, everything in working order, and start driving it.

Working on this truck frequently and performing constant maintenance won't bother me. The race car used to take weeks of work just to race it for a total of 40 secs in a weekend. That was too much work for what pleasure I got out of it.

I'll definitely let everyone know what I find, and I'll get pics for gimpyrobb

 

[JDToumanian]

Well, I guess I'm a pessimist by nature.... If we're speculating on what happened through JJensen's excellent description, I vote for catastrophic engine failure. Sparks could have been coming out of the road draft tube along with all the smoke.

Watch this video of an MTU v-8 diesel on a dyno, spinning a bearing and then detonating. The bad times start around 22 seconds. Sound like what you heard?

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfttA0mds-c[/media]

Jon

 

[hndrsonj]

I'll be curious to see how this comes out. There's alot of what if's. I don't see a belt driven accessory. GUESSING either motor or trans. Should take 20 min troubleshooting.

 

[m-35tom]

still think it's the trans, front bearing. accounts for everything you report. you never said if you had the clutch in when it wouldn't crank.

tom

 

[dmetalmiki]

all those noises

agree with m35 tom , Before towing and or checking anything else have a look at the drive line. with all the smoke and rattles..AND sparks ..could that be gears clutch xfr department! or..a uj , coupling , or other rotating part?? gradually seizing burning up..then locking up. ( you did say it did not "feel" like it was in the gear chosen)..If I had clean like new oil I'd be thinking (oops!) is the oil pump (even?) going round and pumping oil? but thats not my first choice of the cause of this problem ..Keep us posted and let us all know of the cause..good luck and in finding a minimal cause.

 

[JJensen]

Tom, I never tried cranking it with the clutch depressed. I am going to be able to go out there tomorrow evening to work on it and hopefully get it narrowed down. I hope that you are right. My friend looked at it tonight by himself. He said that there was nothing obvious on any of the belts or accessories.

 

[tigger]

You should always depress the clutch when starting! Its safer and less strain on the starter.

 

[Ferroequinologist]

Tom, I never tried cranking it with the clutch depressed.

Not to be mean, but why crank any engine in any piece of equipment with a clutch, WITHOUT depressing the clutch?

Anyway, please let us know what you find.

I wonder why there was so much smoke and a rubber smell then if the belts look ok? Could it have been the clutch smoking instead? Clutch lining has a distinct smell though...