fail-proofing full hydro steering

[Unforgiven]

Jesus,

I'll let you know when I get all the parts. Right now I'm considering re-tubing with Cunifer. When I decide whether or not to spend the money on that then I'll start the upgrade.

FedHill Brake Line - Where to buy brake line, fuel line, brake line flaring tools, brake line nuts and brake line fittings

I pulled an entire system off a Topkick. Pump, small return reservoir, booster, master, pedal assembly. You absolutely have to get the pedal assembly. There are three main types. And doing your own pedal is very dangerous with the HydroMax systems. I read several accounts of school buses and what not having brake failure due to an improperly installed pedal assembly. They "hillbilly" rigged incompatible pedal/booster combos. The result was a snapped push rod for the master cylinder. The kids got quite the exciting ride. And the school district got quite the lawsuit.

I'll PM you later tonight about some details. I can tell you where to score a system for a few hundred bucks.

 

[jesusgatos]

Thanks. Please do PM me about where to source parts, but let's post about everything else publicly. haha. No seriously, I bet there are a lot of people that would like to follow-along, and some of them will probably be able to add some valuable info along the way. Probably best to start a new thread or continue posting in the existing Hydro-Max thread. Not that I mind wandering a bit off-topic here (still sort of related, being hydro-based) but am thinking about keeping all the Hydro-Max info in one place.

I'm curious about that pedal assembly. Having a hard time understanding why it would be so sensitive to modifications, and maybe I'm just being arrogant, but feel pretty confident that I could design/build something that would work just fine. Would just rather not have to use a whole new pedal assembly and would like to put the booster under the cab in the stock location if at all possible, but maybe I'm missing something. Please post pics whenever you can.

 

[jesusgatos]

The Hydromax master/booster is installed and the new LDS engine with the hydraulic pump for the 5-ton trucks is in the chassis now too. Ordered a 2.5-ton Rockwell-specific double-ended steering cylinder and a steering valve from PSC this morning. Looking forward to receiving those parts so I can start designing and fabricating the mounting brackets. Didn't order a reservoir or cooler or filters or anything because the steering and brakes are going to be on the same hydraulic circuit, so need to get all of the steering components mounted before I can do any plumbing.

 

[mudguppy]

... Looking forward to receiving those parts so I can start designing and fabricating the mounting brackets. ...

may i suggest spending a couple bucks and saving a lot of fab time? I've done a lot of looking and i'm going pre-fab route on my other project. I bought two of these units from Red Barn Customs. The fit is good and they're built quite well. They'll make a great platform for the steering cylinders.

attached some pre-mockup setup shots before final rebuild work was finished.

 

[jesusgatos]

Thanks for the link. That looks like a nice setup, but would kinda like to do my own thing.

 

[jesusgatos]

Just figured out that the XR steering columns[/url that PSC sells happen to have exactly the same diameter housing as the stock steering column (1.75"), so there's a bolt-in steering column with integrated quick-release steering wheel mount. Going to design an orbital mount that will bolt to the firewall using the same pattern as the column support brackets, which should make the whole thing a bolt-in deal (except for the steering cylinder mounts, obviously).

 

[sickmoparfreak]

I'm in the middle of building a deuce with 8-9 inches of lift, and I have a char-lyn valve and cylinder from a mud truck project. Rather than spend the money ($500.) on a steering valve that your steering shaft goes through, we're using sprockets on the steering shaft and char-lyn valve with tight drive chain. Will let you know how this works.
Cool part is: I'll maintain my stock "arm-strong" steering for good "center of road" feel at high speed that I totally lost when I went full hydraulic in the past.

 

[n1vbn]

I would keep the air system simply because it gives you another power source for your work/hobby.
If you no longer need the air assist for brakes remove the low air. Buzzer ame toss it in the glove box for what if. At the very least having your own compressed air system would make it easy to reinflate tires or blow mud out of an area. You can easily raise the pressure to 120 PSI which all commercial trucks use and yes I have driven commercial rigs with belt drives to the compressor. I am a truck driver by trade for info. A tight air system with no load would not run often.




James Shanks
1985 M -1009

 

[Hal_VT]

Those rams don't lock on center, but whereever they are when the hydraulics fail, so if you blow a line you will continue to steer in the direction you were going when it happened.

 

[jesusgatos]

I would keep the air system simply because it gives you another power source for your work/hobby.
If you no longer need the air assist for brakes remove the low air. Buzzer ame toss it in the glove box for what if. At the very least having your own compressed air system would make it easy to reinflate tires or blow mud out of an area. You can easily raise the pressure to 120 PSI which all commercial trucks use and yes I have driven commercial rigs with belt drives to the compressor. I am a truck driver by trade for info. A tight air system with no load would not run often.




James Shanks
1985 M -1009

Not planning on removing the air compressor. In fact, will be adding a larger air compressor and additional air tanks. But not for the brakes. The HydroMax system is already installed (mostly).

Those rams don't lock on center, but whereever they are when the hydraulics fail, so if you blow a line you will continue to steer in the direction you were going when it happened.

No steering system is going to lock on-center, or anywhere else. Except maybe full-lock, and then only until the vehicle starts cartwheeling. Not sure what you're trying to say. If a hydraulic line fails (in a system without any redundant safety features) then you'd lose all steering. Same as if you lose any part of a mechanical steering linkage.

 

[srodocker]

subscribed

 

[WRMorrison]

It's been a while; any progress on this aspect of the project?

-WRM

 

[M-1028]

I know this is an old thread, but I had to comment and give my experience with full hydro. I've owned 2 rigs with full hydro, and at any given time usually had 3-5 rigs in my shop equipped with it also. All of the rigs with systems that where built for that vehicle drove as good or better than a brand new truck, many runs from 70-110 mph on the street and dirt roads. Now the ones that had "junk yard" systems usually drove like crap, due to the pump and orbital valve not being correct. If you have a valve that gives you 2 turns or less lock to lock, the vehicle will drive and handle like garbage, it's too sensitive and will never be right. There are also many other factors that can effect full hydro's performance.

 

[jesusgatos]

It's been a while; any progress on this aspect of the project?

-WRM

Yes, sort of. Just finished designing the mounting brackets for the steering cylinder and I'm waiting for Artec Industries to cut the parts for me. Progress on the motorhome has been slow and steady for most of the last 5yrs that I've been working on it, but stalled-out almost completely for a little while as I was spending all my time and money helping my brothers start a new company. Getting back into it meow and really don't have much left to do except install the steering components and plumb all the hydraulics for the steering and brakes.

 

[WRMorrison]

Looks good to me! Artec makes some pretty righteous stuff too; they're somewhat local to me as well...been thinking of picking up their front/rear truss kits for my Jeep. Hurry up and get this done so I can make up my mind on whether or not I'll run full-hydro or go the power steering route...lol. Awesome work so far!

-WRM

ETA: How many turns lock-to-lock is the factory steering? I couldn't turn up the answer in a search, and my truck is at another location.

 

[mudguppy]

curious as to why you went with the Artec and not the Red Barn Custom or Stinky Fab mounts? I went with RBC - fits great. Not sure what the price on the Artec is, but seems like it would be more than the other two. Ultimately, I went with the RBC over the Stinky Fab (similar to the Artec) because of the mounting style - cleaner setup and won't become a shelf for mud/debris to pile up on as much. Your thoughts meow?

 

[jesusgatos]

I designed that mount and Artec is cutting/forming the parts for me. Might be something they end up adding to their product line. Not sure. Didn't like the RBC mount at all and almost bought a Stinkyfab mount, but just ended up doing my own thing to make sure it was exactly what I wanted.

 

[mudguppy]

... Didn't like the RBC mount at all ...

that's my question - what's your thoughts/concerns on the design of their mount that lead you away from it? PM if you would rather not post.

 

[frank8003]

and then the thread just stopped
four years of suspense is killing me......................