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Feeler: Turbo kit for the Diesels
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DrFoster
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I don't see any disadvantages with that level. That's totally realistic. The only problem is if you'll miss using full throttle to climb small hills on the interstate, lol!
I've got a Holset right now, that my buddy and I will be bolting up this weekend... will post results. Obviously, there is no dyno in the world that can handle the deuces, so we have to do some real careful measurements of A/F and Pyro and log a bunch of data. I believe that the "guniea pig" is going to have a stand alone BC/WG and datalogger for the testing so we can get great results in the first try.
I've got a Holset right now, that my buddy and I will be bolting up this weekend... will post results. Obviously, there is no dyno in the world that can handle the deuces, so we have to do some real careful measurements of A/F and Pyro and log a bunch of data. I believe that the "guniea pig" is going to have a stand alone BC/WG and datalogger for the testing so we can get great results in the first try.
DrFoster
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Oh - and your stock -1d should be boosting about 10psi peak, then it starts to surge back to 4-6 psi on top. This Holset is going to hold about 12-14 all the way up, and if you have some mega-built drag racing engine, you can run the full 42 psi with a 12x14x4 FMIC (Front Mount InterCooler for those who aren't turbo savvy)
@ even 10psi, you'll not need the IC and the charge air is still low enough to not skyrocket your egt's... That makes it even easier.
@ even 10psi, you'll not need the IC and the charge air is still low enough to not skyrocket your egt's... That makes it even easier.
DrFoster
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Dangit - I forgot to answer a lot of the other questions I have been getting...
"Hey doc, why Holset, and not Garrett or AR?"
Easy - Holset has a nice flange on it that works, is properly designed with regard to the vanes for the job, and is the BEST fit for this application. It makes big boost at nice cold temps, and that is what we want. Hot nasty charges don't do anything but rob the engine of power and overwhelm the cooling system... (Useless fact of the day: most engines create 3 times the actual power you see to the crank, having lost 1/3 in the cooling system and 1/3 to exhaust... That's why turbos are considered to be "free" horsepower...) other turbos like a Garrett off of a diesel truck may work, but don't have the proper compressor map we wanted for the build. We're trying to get reliable power here.
"How about a Wastegate? External, or internal surge?"
The Holset 35 and 40 have the W designation which means that they have a pseudo-wastegate; commonly referred to as a "surge valve" that is adjustable right on the turbo's housing. That saves a lot of cost and space! The WGA (Waste Gate Actuator) will be a Banks Adjustable, so you can tinker all you'd like.
"What if the WGA fails? Will I over boost and blow the heads off?"
Probably not since they most often break when open -- the diaphragm won't let it boost at all. I've NEVER seen one break. Only leak from a dry-rotted vacuum hose... and that produced partial boost. Right now 90% of the deuces on the road don't even have a wastegate! This means you're either lagging like a dog or surging, never really in a prime area for utilizing the turbo. It was a military design to prevent excess maintenance, but I don't think they weighed the con's too well.
Let me know if there are any more ?'s! I'm always here to answer them!
"Hey doc, why Holset, and not Garrett or AR?"
Easy - Holset has a nice flange on it that works, is properly designed with regard to the vanes for the job, and is the BEST fit for this application. It makes big boost at nice cold temps, and that is what we want. Hot nasty charges don't do anything but rob the engine of power and overwhelm the cooling system... (Useless fact of the day: most engines create 3 times the actual power you see to the crank, having lost 1/3 in the cooling system and 1/3 to exhaust... That's why turbos are considered to be "free" horsepower...) other turbos like a Garrett off of a diesel truck may work, but don't have the proper compressor map we wanted for the build. We're trying to get reliable power here.
"How about a Wastegate? External, or internal surge?"
The Holset 35 and 40 have the W designation which means that they have a pseudo-wastegate; commonly referred to as a "surge valve" that is adjustable right on the turbo's housing. That saves a lot of cost and space! The WGA (Waste Gate Actuator) will be a Banks Adjustable, so you can tinker all you'd like.
"What if the WGA fails? Will I over boost and blow the heads off?"
Probably not since they most often break when open -- the diaphragm won't let it boost at all. I've NEVER seen one break. Only leak from a dry-rotted vacuum hose... and that produced partial boost. Right now 90% of the deuces on the road don't even have a wastegate! This means you're either lagging like a dog or surging, never really in a prime area for utilizing the turbo. It was a military design to prevent excess maintenance, but I don't think they weighed the con's too well.
Let me know if there are any more ?'s! I'm always here to answer them!
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Be aware of the facts concerning the Multifuel engines. They are ALL blessed with a design flaw in the lower end. I was at the huge USMC base in Barstow, Ca (Yermo) and saw at least a thousand LDT & LDS engines in a recovery yard laying on pallets. Each and every one had the center web blown out in a catastrophic failure mode. The GSM in charge said it was the reason they referred to 'em as "lightbulb"" engines, "cause you never know when they will blow out".
He also went on about it being some crap pork barrel deal that motor was in trucks at all, with the SOB MacNamera making backdoor deals, eTc. The only saving grace of Uncle Sam buying them was they bought a LOT of them so he could just keep putting them in.
In retrospect, I've never seen one go to normal high miles (100K or so) without heavy internal maintence. I am obviously not a fan of them, but I don't want to start a flame war as a lot of them are prized posessions.
Hint: If you a really good lifespan duece, repower it with a DT466 from Deere. They are an honest workhorse, and require essentially the same footprint so as to make an easier repower than a "V" or longer engine.
dg
He also went on about it being some crap pork barrel deal that motor was in trucks at all, with the SOB MacNamera making backdoor deals, eTc. The only saving grace of Uncle Sam buying them was they bought a LOT of them so he could just keep putting them in.
In retrospect, I've never seen one go to normal high miles (100K or so) without heavy internal maintence. I am obviously not a fan of them, but I don't want to start a flame war as a lot of them are prized posessions.
Hint: If you a really good lifespan duece, repower it with a DT466 from Deere. They are an honest workhorse, and require essentially the same footprint so as to make an easier repower than a "V" or longer engine.
dg
DrFoster
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That's why I'm CAREFULLY building this. True you'll only see 30K-50K out of a military motor, but that is mostly related to poor care and operation during its service. I know for a fact when I drove them, we used to blast the living shi+ out of them just hoping for them to break so we could sit in the rear for a few days. We also used to race them hard, way over the 2600 rpm limit, not to mention overloading them and then pulling howitzers and all sorts of insane things.
I'm not suprised so many go kaput. Then again, I'm really suprised the beating the motor will take. That says a little about it. The good thing is that if you find a rebuilt motor that is low in mileage, you have a much better chance for survival in the long run, just as with any other motor.
I'm not suprised so many go kaput. Then again, I'm really suprised the beating the motor will take. That says a little about it. The good thing is that if you find a rebuilt motor that is low in mileage, you have a much better chance for survival in the long run, just as with any other motor.
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Burger King.
dg
dg
BFR
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G744 said:
Dieselsmoke
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DrFoster said:Obviously, there is no dyno in the world that can handle the deuces, quote]
I've got a Mustang dyno that's run several deuces
ida34
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I do treat the my deuce better than the deuce I had in the Army. I have to actually pay for the replacement parts now.
rdixiemiller
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Hint: If you a really good lifespan duece, repower it with a DT466 from Deere. They are an honest workhorse, and require essentially the same footprint so as to make an easier repower than a "V" or longer engine.
dg[/quote]
Anyone ever done that swap? I don't know anything about the DT466, CID, HP, etc. How does it compare size wise? Bolt up to the stock tranny?
Mechanical controls or electronic?
dg[/quote]
Anyone ever done that swap? I don't know anything about the DT466, CID, HP, etc. How does it compare size wise? Bolt up to the stock tranny?
Mechanical controls or electronic?
Longevity of the 465
Before we bash the longevity of the 465 too much; I have a LDS4651A in a beefed up deuce. I have no idea how many hours were on it when we bought it back in 1972. It was probably a fresh rebuild then. Since then It has fed cattle in a feedyard most every day since then averaging over two hours a day. Thats at the very least 24000 hours most likely 30000+. (tach but no hr meter) Its turned up. It has had overload springs and additional leaves added and the box itself empty weight is 14000 plus varrying load weight from 500 to 10000 pounds usually about 6000. I have put about 3 sets of head gaskets in over the years and three sets of bearings, one set of rings and sleves and pistons in 1993 thats it. Im a DT 466 fan (which by the way is International NOT deere) most of them will last no better than this particular 465 has.
Before we bash the longevity of the 465 too much; I have a LDS4651A in a beefed up deuce. I have no idea how many hours were on it when we bought it back in 1972. It was probably a fresh rebuild then. Since then It has fed cattle in a feedyard most every day since then averaging over two hours a day. Thats at the very least 24000 hours most likely 30000+. (tach but no hr meter) Its turned up. It has had overload springs and additional leaves added and the box itself empty weight is 14000 plus varrying load weight from 500 to 10000 pounds usually about 6000. I have put about 3 sets of head gaskets in over the years and three sets of bearings, one set of rings and sleves and pistons in 1993 thats it. Im a DT 466 fan (which by the way is International NOT deere) most of them will last no better than this particular 465 has.
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Deere sells the 466, I-H does also. So they actually build it, big deal. Pleany of them out here with over 200K and not ANY of what you had to do had to be done. Hard, full bore road miles, short local delivery miles, any kind of miles.
I rest my case.
You want fries with that?
dg
I rest my case.
You want fries with that?
dg
DT 466 is very simmilar in size and hp (466ci). But with the inline pump and IC and all the easily added turbos and aftermarket pistons they have alot more room for raw HP with alot less work. But on the other hand you cant buy one thats pretty fresh for a few hundred bucks either.
Well, Feedyard and field hours in the dust are alot harder on any engine than highway and city hours like your comparing. But I wont argue. If I had my choice for the same $ it would be the 466 hands down.
One Tip: If you want the 465 to last never push it over 2200 rpm and never lug it under 1400.
One Tip: If you want the 465 to last never push it over 2200 rpm and never lug it under 1400.
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'nuf said, compadre.
dg
dg
Dieselsmoke
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And it took four posts in a row to get that point acrossylecyote said:
JasonS
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I am not trying to fan the fire, but I'd like to know a little more about the multifuel's weaknesses.