Feeler: Turbo kit for the Diesels

[rdixiemiller]

And strengths.

 

[ylecyote]

Ok so I might like to argue a little. Anyway now that we all know Im not a deere fan...

In my experience the most common weakness is head gaskets. But I think the early ones were not as good. Also planing the heads helps.

 

[DaveP]

have a friend not far from me that has at least 2 maybe three DT466's for sale. give me a bump if interested and i will get price.

 

[DrFoster]

Ok - update... I'm late getting back to this thread. The Flange I had fabbed up didn't fit the turbo and manifold well. I'm going another route with a new idea, and will get you pictures this weekend since randylbarnes was kind enough to give us a donor manifold for the testing phase.

Shouldn't be be more than after this weekend and I'll have a non-intercooled kit together; PENDING the flanges fitting up properly. It would not be much of a problem most of the time, but we're shooting for a total bolt on plan. If the down-pipe of sorts doesn't match, it will be back to the drawing board.

 

[DrFoster]

I am not trying to fan the fire, but I'd like to know a little more about the multifuel's weaknesses.

From what I know the head gaskets are funny, and it is really easy to crank the egt up high enough to make a meltdown of almost anything post-intake.

Also the crank journal I understand is not too well designed.

As far as the "bashing" goes on the quality of the motor, I'm saying 30-50K out of a military use motor because I know first hand we beat them up one side and down the other. No cool down before shutdown, overrevving them, drag racing them, smoking the clutches, anything you shouldn't be doing with them. I drove one pulling a howitzer (155 NOT the little 105) that weighed 8 tons and it was low on oil for over 500 miles. That's just one small example.

Civvie use of them seems to be really good - no REAL huge problems. Just a normal powerplant for most of our civilian gear jammers out there.

 

[JasonS]

Well, I am not going to mess with the multifuel. 30-50k is pretty miserable... From what I've read on this forum, there appear to be fundamental design flaws. I'm either going to stick with the reo gas engine or search out a cummins.

 

[DrFoster]

Or a Cat 3208 with a turbo... Talk to trango. He's done a real nice job on his conversion.

 

[Djfreema]

What is the flange size for the hx-35/ hx-40? I just bought a new turbo made for a cat 3126 that I am going to use for my turboproject and it looks like I have to make a flange adapter being that its 4 1/4" long by 2 3/4"wide (outside dimensions) which is smaller than the duece exhaust manifold flange. The 3126 is around 430 cubic inches and uses a wastegate turbo and can put out up to over 400hp in marine applications.

 

[DrFoster]

Those cat turbos are poorly mapped. Watch out. There's a lot of lag in them because they were designed to be operated at WOT most of the time. I know that is a shitty thing to say about them, but I just want to be honest DJ.

The adaptor flange is the hardest part of the build. Not only does it have to mate flush, but it has to tolerate HUGE heat factors.

To answer your question, here is the flange for the Deuce: 5-5/16" x 4-3/4" overall and I'd have to dig for the exhaust ports on it. BE SURE to build a ported flange to dump easy into the collector. We had a lot of backpressure without it in the computer designs, and higher EGT's with a wide-open flange. Let me know if you'll need a CNC pattern or a blueprint to grind from. I've got a CAD of it somewhere too for when we were playing with collector dimensions to increase spool of the stock turbo and add in a wastegate.

 

[Djfreema]

Hey Doc, Do you think its a waste of time messing with the cat turbo? Do the Holset turbo's have the same size exhaust flange as the stock duece or is the same size as this Cat turbo I have? I'm kind of bummed to hear its not the performer I thought it would be. I dont want to waste time fabbing up the flange adapter if its not worth it. Thanks,Devin

 

[rdixiemiller]

Dr. F.
Send me the CAD file if you can. I can machine the adapter flange from cold rolled steel, or cast iron. I can buy cast iron blanks from some metal suppliers I use.
How thick does the adapter flange need to be to accomodate the waste gate?

 

[DrFoster]

I'd have to look it up, but I was pretty sure it was a divided t4 flange. I'll be back in a little bit and let you know.

 

[DrFoster]

Dr. F.
Send me the CAD file if you can. I can machine the adapter flange from cold rolled steel, or cast iron. I can buy cast iron blanks from some metal suppliers I use.
How thick does the adapter flange need to be to accomodate the waste gate?

I greatly appreciate the offer, however, a lot of design and work has gone into the "kit" and I'm keeping the fab in-house. Hope you understand.

As far as the wastegate, here are some photos (we don't need the adaptor to hold a wastegate since the holset we're using has an internal one)

 

[rizzo]

this is very exciting. I will be interested when you get the bugs worked out. I would like to put it on my M543A2

 

[cranetruck]

So, doc, what kind of numbers do you need to calculate the efficiency for a particular run?
I have fairly good data for distances traveled with fuel consumed, average speed, EGT, boost, ambient and engine temps and total vehicle weight.
Thanks,

 

[DrFoster]

Hey Doc, Do you think its a waste of time messing with the cat turbo? Do the Holset turbo's have the same size exhaust flange as the stock duece or is the same size as this Cat turbo I have? I'm kind of bummed to hear its not the performer I thought it would be. I dont want to waste time fabbing up the flange adapter if its not worth it. Thanks,Devin

I was off on the flange size. This is a "TV" flange.

Sorry for the mis-information.

Crane, I'm going to need that in a little while once I get to tuning with the pc and using some logging. Thanks!

 

[DrFoster]

Also - if you're going to a Holset, you'll need the TV to T4 flange. That's where the tricky stuff comes in. Too small and you'll have HUGE egt's and surging the wastegate all of the time, and too big... You'll end up with an expensive stock motor.

 

[Djfreema]

Hey Cranetruck, Have you ever measured the temperature of the charge air inside the intake manifold? I just put an extra Pyrometer probe in my intake manifold today and will have it hooked up to my MAC digital mutimeter. I used it before when my egt guage broke and it gave very precise readings. Im going to take measurements with the stock turbo, then with a more efficient turbo then when I put on an intercooler. I'm taking a break right now and will post the stock results tonight or tomorrow. Seems like a fun project

 

[Djfreema]

Ok just got back from a drive. Going up a hill in 4th gear 14 lbs of boost @ 1100 degrees EGT and coolant temp around 140 degrees, outside air about 58 gave a charge air temperature of 145 degrees. The highest I could get it was 160 degrees on flat land at full throttle in 5th gear, didnt look at the other parameters due to traffic.

 

[DrFoster]

1100 should be enough to make your turbo and manifold glow... Shouldn't be over 900 in a "good" running condition.

Most especially if you've got the EGT after the turbo, which would be about 1200 to 1300° f on a pre-turbo temp. (HOLY COW, that's got to be the reason everyone is melting the manifolds and seeing those tell-tale stress fractures)