FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[rtrask]

Thanks for the invite, Joshua. I went past your place about six months ago, coming back from Provo, and used to go to Richfield somewhat frequently, but now there's nothing on the horizon for going your way.

I'll be in rtrask's neck of the woods in about a month to pick up a car, and most likely will stop by and pester General Hood in about two months as I'm picking up a trailer near his digs. If I make it to Moab, that's as close as I'll get for a while.

So, you may want to visit here instead. Much less land, not very hospitable, but more FLUs.

Sounds good. let me know the details and we can meet for lunch or dinner or what ever will work for you.

 

[The FLU farm]

Sounds good. let me know the details and we can meet for lunch or dinner or what ever will work for you.

Appreciate it, Ron. I'd like to finally meet you, but generally I don't stop for food on trips.

Actually, the only thing I stop for on trips shorter than 1,000 to 1,500 miles is fuel. But I'll make an exception to meet up with you.
I'll be going to Colorado Springs to grab a car, so the ideal place to meet would be there, while I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to tie it down.

Of course, that's assuming that the car makes it to Colorado Springs this year.
The last one took four months and over a week to make it from Detroit to Utah.

 

[mberetta]

I don't feel like my Bosch primer pump is working very well. Are they serviceable? I don't mind the price of a new one, I'm just being impatient. My new fuel filters just arrived. I've installed them and I am dying to fire this thing up. My linkage from the gas pedal to the back of the engine and over to the fuel injector pump was all frozen (corrosion not cold). After a lot of PB blaster and some loving taps with a hammer it's all loosened up and begging to be used.

 

[rtrask]

I don't feel like my Bosch primer pump is working very well. Are they serviceable? I don't mind the price of a new one, I'm just being impatient. My new fuel filters just arrived. I've installed them and I am dying to fire this thing up. My linkage from the gas pedal to the back of the engine and over to the fuel injector pump was all frozen (corrosion not cold). After a lot of PB blaster and some loving taps with a hammer it's all loosened up and begging to be used.

If it really is bad, probably your best bet is to just replace it. This post is helpful in that regard. https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...Owners-group&p=2188105&viewfull=1#post2188105 I have heard that you can service the old style ones and that they are similar to a Coleman generator pump. I have not heard of anyone working on the new style ones.

My guess is that the pump is not your issue anyway. If you have not already done so start by filling the filters with diesel. Peakbagger has some good advice on fuel starvation issues here.https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...Owners-group&p=1926391&viewfull=1#post1926391


As an alternative to the hand outboard motor hand pump that Peakbagger suggests, you might try pressurizing the tank through vent valve. I just hooked up a clear vinyl hose to the vent and blew on the end. if you are not as big a blow hard as me use your air compressor, but turn the pressure down to <20 psi. Note: I have read where on some of the SEEs this is a one way valve and so you may not be able to pressurize the tank this way. Mine was built in 87 and it works great.

While digging in on this topic, I saw on the parts schematic that they show a line coming off the vent valve. Does anyone have that,and where does it go?

Attachment 757890

 

[rtrask]

I have been working on an index to the topics on this thread. I intend to post this in a different thread for easier access, but I thought I would post a snapshot to get peoples feed back. There is a lot of good info on this thread, and more than a little BS. In the current form, I have a topic and the post number. From the post number you can get to the page by dividing the post number by 10, discarding the decimal, and adding 1.

So for example post 863 can be found on page 87.

Here is what I have so far:

SEE HMMH HME Owners Index of threads

Discussion on fabrication
9

Air leak when putting in 4 / 4 diff lock (air diffs)
28, 32

NAPA oil and Gas filters
31

Picture of jack for removing the front end loader
58 (official) 61 (home grown)

Picture of cab tilting brackets
66, 69

Advice on removing front end loader and backhoe
71

Pictures of tilted cab
77

Pictures of front end loader bucket controls / source for replacements
88, 90

Dashboard electrical problems
92, 237, 462, 472, 477, 489, 497, 526, 540, 569

Front loader removal
102

Getting backhoe to lock
108, 112, 341, 345

Air Hose source
110, 1195, 1201, 1207

Ripper for backhoe
119

PTO / Hydraulic lever and high RPM
133, 142, 144
Alternator Wiring
147

Slow leak in fuel supply lines / fuel starvation issues
151, 155, 159, 2643

Master disconnect and key issues
209

Stuck in neutral / clutch issue
245, 253

Vtwin4christ videos
324

Airbrake discussion
326

Tips on grading
351

Backhoe is 580C case cylinder rebuild discussion
366, 374

Spare Tire
369, 371

Auxiliary hydraulic quit working
426, 427

Power to the starter === power to dash
449, 451-453 462

Specs on Hydraulic Flow
457

Replacement for cooling fans
482

Stuck nuts and paint
491

Fuse block replacement
502, 503

Engine Anti Freeze
536, 539

Replacing work lights with LEDs
573

Cracked injector & drain coolant
599

Ideas on suspension lockout
600

Non gov fluids
641, 643, 644, 656

Removing backhoe
649

Snow blower
692, 707

OEM Auger
722, 726

Air hose, reel
724, 734

Brush Hog
742

Replacing Batteries with group 31 optima
749, 757, 759,1568, 1570,1571,1573,1574,1584 -1587

Air locker drain
796, 846, 848, 849

Air leaks
797, 904, 908


Engaging PTO without grinding
803

Tires, pressure, bouncy handling
829, 831, 954-956, 987

Mixing Hydraulic oil
851

Electrical issues -- Air brakes -- Compressor -- Starter
858, 860

Fuel prime issues
863, 871 - 873, 949, 951, 953, 954

Backhoe thumb
914, 922, 927, 928

Electrical Relays
944

Split shift issue
1046

Fuel starvation
1117, 1121, 1123, 1136

Boots on tie rod ends --
821,1160, 1173, 1181, 1182, 1189,1197,
https://www.benzworld.org/forums/unimog/1311547-tierod-boot-repair-finally-great-way-2.html#post2301459
https://www.energysuspensionparts.com/universal-dust-boots.asp
http://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/universal_outer_tie_rod_ends.asp


Diesel bug growth
1161, 1175, 1179

Rear work lights / back up
1185

Either Cylinder
1231

Using a winch
1238

Spare Tire Lifting
1376
Red-River-Army-Depot-(RRAD)- rebuild
1393 http://www.kmimediagroup.com/military-logistics-forum/magazines/470-mlf-2013-volume-7-issue-1-february/6421-vehicle-reset-sp-535
1395
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?104940-Red-River-Army-Depot-(RRAD)-rebuild

Discussion about HHM suspension lockout between Flu Farm and Big Bison
1403-1471

Water/Oil/Engine heater
1411,1415,1420,

Biodiesel
1442

Ripper
1472,1473,1476,1478

Digging with your SEE
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?116544-Digging-with-your-S-E-E
1473

Tires
1481-1484

Hood discussion
1530 - 1536 3788

Tire pressure Stencil
1620

Putting the front end loader in Float
1658, 1664

Oil Dipstick Length
1670, 1671

Fittings for hydraulic tool
1676-1679

Merits of regular backhoe vrs. SEE
1690

Discussion on batteries 2 12 volt vrs 1 24 Lithium & AGM, Lead acid
1700 - 1705 1716 1725
Alternator modifications for Lithium Battery 1748

Diagnosing fuel supply issues
1770, 1774-1777

Issues with Tach and other wiring
1817, 1823, 1825

Discussion on SEE diagnostic wiring
1847

Weight of SEE without front end loader and backhoe 9740 lbs

Bleeding the brakes and other info
2641

Recent acquisition of new SEE advice / tips
3788




Rebuilding Hydrolic rams
3762-3770 3792 3823

Front bucket lever issues

3793 - 3800

Removing FOPS without additional crane or hoist
3805

Malone Specialty
3815

 

[rtrask]

With over 100$ in given to NAPA in exchange for dot 5 break fluid I now have bled the break lines and have the purple stuff coming out the bleeder valves on right rear, left rear, right front back caliper, left front back caliper, ALB modulator, front caliper right front, front caliper left front, and clutch. If any one wants to do this, they should do them selves a favor and buy a gallon to of the dot 5 to start with.

The old stuff was really nasty and I am glad I did it, but If I had it to do over again I think I would have blown out the old stuff with air before starting to add the good stuff back. It may not be a good idea to introduce that much air to the system, but I at least you would know it was all out and I think it would waste less of the new fluid. Here is a picture of what was in the slave cylinder reservoir.



Which is part of what motivated me to replace it all.

The clutch works great,and did before. The breaks now have pressure on the top of the stroke but feel a little mushy and will go to the bottom if held on. I have not sorted out my air issues yet, so that may be why, but I suspect the air is just a force multiplier, and not the source of the mushy bleed off. Does anyone have advice on what my next steps should be?

 

[Migginsbros]

For the primer pump see page 416 of this thread.

 

[rtrask]

The clutch works great,and did before. The breaks now have pressure on the top of the stroke but feel a little mushy and will go to the bottom if held on. I have not sorted out my air issues yet, so that may be why, but I suspect the air is just a force multiplier, and not the source of the mushy bleed off. Does anyone have advice on what my next steps should be?

No advice, so I asked Mr. Google. My best guess is that I have air in the break lines, so I will continue bleeding them. The way I had been bleeding them was with a set up similar to what the TM's show with two caps that are attached to hoses. I modified that set up with a reservoir made from a garden pump sprayer. I suspect that this set up may be allowing air into the system. I will try to re-engineer this system. Speedwoble talks about a similar set up that connects through the bleeder valve on the master cilynder in post 2641 / pg 265. Unfortunately the link which describes it is no longer valid. I will look around for other design ideas, and post some pictures of what I come up with. If anyone has suggestions please pass them on.

 

[LZahariev]

I wanted to share my experience with bleeding the brakes. I replaced one of the front half shafts. I removed and replaced the front hub assembly. After reassembly, a spent a hole day bleeding all of the calipers on all of the wheels and could not get the brake pedal to firm up. The clutch also lost some stiffness and needed two pumps to work properly. I just started working with the Mog and after about 16 hours of use, the brakes and clutch seem back to normal. Firm brake pedal and clutch works on the first push. Not sure how the system could bleed itself but thought it was worth sharing.

Lu

 

[rtrask]

I wanted to share my experience with bleeding the brakes. I replaced one of the front half shafts. I removed and replaced the front hub assembly. After reassembly, a spent a hole day bleeding all of the calipers on all of the wheels and could not get the brake pedal to firm up. The clutch also lost some stiffness and needed two pumps to work properly. I just started working with the Mog and after about 16 hours of use, the brakes and clutch seem back to normal. Firm brake pedal and clutch works on the first push. Not sure how the system could bleed itself but thought it was worth sharing.

Lu

Thanks LZahariev,

The clutch seems better than ever. When I started there was no pressure at all on the brakes. Now it has good pressure when I first step on the pedal, but if I keep on the break pedal it gets increasingly softer and goes to the floor.

On the CNC web site there were two things that were interesting. First they "Strongly recomend" some kind of bladder system where the air pressure is not directly on the fluid. I am not sure how that can work. The other thing they said was that silicon brake fluid will cause mushy breaks.

Since I have zero experience with a working system I don't have a clue what they should feel like.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[The FLU farm]

I just started working with the Mog and after about 16 hours of use, the brakes and clutch seem back to normal. Firm brake pedal and clutch works on the first push. Not sure how the system could bleed itself but thought it was worth sharing.

Yep, gravity is our friend. I have a car with a notoriously hard to bleed clutch, and found that if I just add fluid and left it alone for a day or two, the clutch was fine.

rtrask, it could be worth trying a simple gravity bleed; leave a bleeder open for a while without touching anything.
Of course, with the pedal sinking like you describe, it sounds like the master cylinder is at fault.

 

[rtrask]

Of course, with the pedal sinking like you describe, it sounds like the master cylinder is at fault.

The master cilynder is a brand new after market one from EI. I guess it could be faulty. I can try to bleed the master cilynder again. I am a bit concerned about keeping the reservoirs full with gravity method but maybe I can make it work. How do you know when it is done?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[The FLU farm]

New doesn't equal good, unfortunately.
If you open one bleeder at a time a little, you'll have plenty of time to keep an eye on the level in the reservoir.

You know you're done when the brakes work perfectly (sorry, couldn't resist, Ron).

 

[rtrask]

New doesn't equal good, unfortunately.
If you open one bleeder at a time a little, you'll have plenty of time to keep an eye on the level in the reservoir.

You know you're done when the brakes work perfectly (sorry, couldn't resist, Ron).

The brakes have been working perfectly for the last year, because it sitting on jack stands, so it come to a complete stop every time I touch the breaks.

So Doctor James your Diagnosis was 100% correct. The problem was with the master cylinder. I was able to correct the problem with correct application of original treatment regimen. The problem was that I started the process of bleeding the breaks in December, and I was so focused on trying to get all of the old fluid out I forgot that in my original incarnation when I was just using air I ran one of the reservoirs dry. I then I added the rest of the pressure bleed system but did not go back to the bleed the master cylinder. Over lunch I started from the beginning and knew immediately that the problem was air in the master cylinder. I ran the through the hole circuit in less than 30 minutes plus over an an hour trying to get the 7 mm wrench that the MOG swallowed while working on the clutch breed valve.

Here is a picture of the pressure bleeder I cobbled together. I think it could be vastly simplified if you were able to follow the model that Speedwoble used and connect directly to the master cylinder. If / when I do it again, that is what I will do.

 

[Mark1954]

Does anyone know a good/best place to get what I understand is an Idle Control assembly.
The 419 starts, runs, then stumbles and almost dies, then you can work the foot throttle to
feather it up to 1800 rpm, then it will stumble and die. Can instantly start it again with same results.
even when warmed up eventually, will run briefly and even work, but dies when load is added.

 

[The FLU farm]

Does anyone know a good/best place to get what I understand is an Idle Control assembly.
The 419 starts, runs, then stumbles and almost dies, then you can work the foot throttle to
feather it up to 1800 rpm, then it will stumble and die. Can instantly start it again with same results.
even when warmed up eventually, will run briefly and even work, but dies when load is added.

I'd check the strainer, and for air leaks, before replacing any parts. At least it sounds much like what I've experienced.
Besides, I hadn't heard of an idle control assembly, so I wouldn't even know how to replace one.

 

[mberetta]

With over 100$ in given to NAPA in exchange for dot 5 break fluid I now have bled the break lines and have the purple stuff coming out the bleeder valves on right rear, left rear, right front back caliper, left front back caliper, ALB modulator, front caliper right front, front caliper left front, and clutch. If any one wants to do this, they should do them selves a favor and buy a gallon to of the dot 5 to start with.

The old stuff was really nasty and I am glad I did it, but If I had it to do over again I think I would have blown out the old stuff with air before starting to add the good stuff back. It may not be a good idea to introduce that much air to the system, but I at least you would know it was all out and I think it would waste less of the new fluid. Here is a picture of what was in the slave cylinder reservoir.

View attachment 757901

Which is part of what motivated me to replace it all.

The clutch works great,and did before. The breaks now have pressure on the top of the stroke but feel a little mushy and will go to the bottom if held on. I have not sorted out my air issues yet, so that may be why, but I suspect the air is just a force multiplier, and not the source of the mushy bleed off. Does anyone have advice on what my next steps should be?

I'm afraid this is on the horizon for me. I'm not very excited about it honestly. What about rinsing with a cheaper brake fluid?

Thanks for the pump info and the index. Very useful!

 

[kira2235740]

Does anyone know a good/best place to get what I understand is an Idle Control assembly.
The 419 starts, runs, then stumbles and almost dies, then you can work the foot throttle to
feather it up to 1800 rpm, then it will stumble and die. Can instantly start it again with same results.
even when warmed up eventually, will run briefly and even work, but dies when load is added.

Had the same problem while pushing snow, took me 45mins to go 800yds. Change the primary fuel filter, primed the system and didnt have any more problems. So check the primary fuel filter/change it.


“Student, you do not study to pass the test. You study to prepare for the day when you are the only thing between a patient and their grave.”

 

[The FLU farm]

Had the same problem while pushing snow, took me 45mins to go 800yds. Change the primary fuel filter, primed the system and didnt have any more problems. So check the primary fuel filter/change it.

Or, it could be as simple as that the fuel was gelling. If the temps were low enough, that is.

 

[SeeNebraska]

Or, it could be as simple as that the fuel was gelling. If the temps were low enough, that is.

i had that happen a few times this winter. taking the cap off the fuel filter i could blow off the gunk/ice with carb cleaner and it would be back to full power for the rest of the job.