Got pulled over today. Smoke Issue

[gimpyrobb]

Well, the plan was to pull the intake and exhaust to see what was going on. We pulled the intake horn and I couldn't spin the blades by hand. I had him start it up and the blades were not moving. Once pulled, we could spin the blades(go figure). Also the V band clamp that holds the exhaust snail shell to the center section had its T-bolt broken, so I'm sure exhaust was escaping. Finally, there was a lot of black oil on the compressor side, I believe to be crankcase oil.

All in all, I think it was just worn out and needs a rebuild. There was no play in the shaft though, so I don't believe its trashed.

 

[Eafarms]

Both turbines were spinning. But it was from intake vacuume not exhaust pressure.

Gimpyrobbs new turbo was slapped on and spooled up no problem. Going down the road with boost was a whole new experience. This thing hauls ass for what it is. Still tops out at 45. But gets there way faster and easier. Engine sounds way healthier as well. Exhaust upon take off is a nice grayish cloud that dissipates quickly and is totally clear by the upper RPMs. Even lugging in 5th it was less smoky than it had ever been.

 

[wcuhillbilly]

What was the turbo you ended up with? Im curious what they suggested for a wrecker.

ended up with a Schwitzer 4LHR ???? I think,,,, cant remember, I listed it in the Jake thread.
5 ton hotrodding, M816 Jakes and a Turbo, thread by me-wcuhillbilly.
cant remember how to do a link right now. I had a locked up NTC 350 855 Cummins which is the bigger hP version of our 250s, So everything was bolt on and the AR1200? turbo was locked up, so I called around and blaylock took the time to explain to me the faults of the AR1200 and why everyone wanted the HT3B, eventhough there is a vast realm of suitable equivalents such as my Schwitzer.

 

[Lukes_deuce]

Compared to the stock C and D turbos on a multifuel yes a ht3b is huge. Problem is not the induction size it's the exhaust side of the ht3b. the 7.8L multifuel doesn't move enough exhaust to spool up that size turbo.

Hx35 with the 14cm housing is one of the turbos that came on the DT466 engines during the 90's, 7.6L engine which makes similar power to the 8.3 Cummins. The 35 that came on the dodge trucks has the smaller, more restricted 12cm exhaust housing and the lower number of blades on the input turbine. The stock C and D turbos have similar measurements to a hx30 and are capable of destroying a multifuel.

Then theres the volume of incoming air with the turbo. Due to the 22:1 compression the multifuel can't handle a high volume or high pressure of intake air, lifts the heads and blows the gaskets (if lucky). All this has been discussed often in the deuce modification section.

gimpyrobb I think you're right. Fuel would be turned up pretty high if it's making 15psi.

Learn something new everyday. Never owned a multifuel and have not done a lot of research on them. Guess there not as strong as I thought they were. I have to change my expectations of a multifuel. 15psi is where the fun begins!

 

[Jericho]

Nice to hear you got it fixed, I would surmise from your description that you have an inducer /exducer shaft seal and likely bearing failure. V band clamp captive t bolt can take some incredible stress. But the area that kills them is incipient rotational vibration. . Usual failure mode used to be leaking failed seal and then reduced cooling/lubrication. It generally equals bearing failure, They turn at a fairly high RPM . I am surprised you didn't hear something or feel a vibration if you applied a long screw driver tip to the housing and the handle to your ear anvil when it was in the mid RPM range , Never the less, solved , good news , one caveot, If the bearing was in fact failed or the oil subjected to excess heat make sure you drain and flush the oil feed/ return. I would also drain and flush refill the crank. It is easy for the wear mental from a bearing failure to wash back down , clogging passages and ending up in the crank, You may NOT. see direct evidence , A pile of chips spallled bearings or trashed metal. Even smaller particals that you cant see can end up in the lube system and imbed into the mains ect Used turbo oil can be pretty dirty, If your in doubt if the seals were leaking , smell the oil it will smell burnt , it will be easy to tell, Iam sure you know all of this any way, BUt know when I finally get one running I just drive it !

 

[Flyingvan911]

Glad to hear the problem is solved!

 

[Jericho]

Wow, so you were the guy by the POOL . lol Thanks.

 

[Jericho]

Red, if you want to spool a "larger "turbo there are a couple of unique ways to do it, depends on your ability to avoid your wife scrutinizing your pay check . one can run a compound turbo, a small one and a larger one, the small one spools up faster and then provides pressure or velocity to spool up the larger one, turbo lag can be a problem. Variable inlet Vane (VIV) Turbos, they are common on aircraft, newish to trucks, a number of custom builders make then, The inlet (inducer) side of the turbos blades are adjustable with mech/ hydro means , The blades efficency is manipulated over the range of the turbo's operation effectively changing the airfoil shape and inclination /angle. It allows easy spool up and quick pressure / velocity changes. Interestingly in some cases the blow off valve can be eliminated, The over pressure and pulses are controlled by vane angle changes, it is the basis for compressor control on the J 79/J 85 series of jet engines. and finally shaped blade configurations, it is a simple CENTRIFUGAL turbo rather than a AXIAL turbo and the airfoils are specifically shape for low to high rpm consistent performance, Aircraft Roots Vane compressors also use REDUCTION GEAR driven compressors to alter rpm when low engine rpm is insufficient for boost. Remember Bernoules (SP ) Therom, Pressure and velocity vary inversely . When one goes up, the other goes down, To increase stack velocity decrease tube diameter, pressure will drop, to decrease velocity and increase pressure, widen the tube

 

[Nomadic]

Glad to hear your truck is fixed. Hats off to gimpyrobb for helping with that. Amazing community here.

 

[red]

Red, if you want to spool a "larger "turbo there are a couple of unique ways to do it, depends on your ability to avoid your wife scrutinizing your pay check . one can run a compound turbo, a small one and a larger one, the small one spools up faster and then provides pressure or velocity to spool up the larger one, turbo lag can be a problem. Variable inlet Vane (VIV) Turbos, they are common on aircraft, newish to trucks, a number of custom builders make then, The inlet (inducer) side of the turbos blades are adjustable with mech/ hydro means , The blades efficency is manipulated over the range of the turbo's operation effectively changing the airfoil shape and inclination /angle. It allows easy spool up and quick pressure / velocity changes. Interestingly in some cases the blow off valve can be eliminated, The over pressure and pulses are controlled by vane angle changes, it is the basis for compressor control on the J 79/J 85 series of jet engines. and finally shaped blade configurations, it is a simple CENTRIFUGAL turbo rather than a AXIAL turbo and the airfoils are specifically shape for low to high rpm consistent performance, Aircraft Roots Vane compressors also use REDUCTION GEAR driven compressors to alter rpm when low engine rpm is insufficient for boost. Remember Bernoules (SP ) Therom, Pressure and velocity vary inversely . When one goes up, the other goes down, To increase stack velocity decrease tube diameter, pressure will drop, to decrease velocity and increase pressure, widen the tube

Very true, variable turbos are a great option if you desire a single turbo to cover a larger operating rpm range. Finding one that is not computer controlled and costs less than $1600, I haven't found one. Being a mechanical engine a compound turbo setup is ideal for performance whether thats for towing/work or just aiming for maximum power. Compounds are my favorite setup on a diesel when sized right because of how the smaller turbo address the bottom end torque/turbo lag issue while the larger turbo takes over at the main operating range.

On the multifuel engine specifically the compression ratio is the main limiting factor. Compression ratios of 20:1 and higher can't handle high boost pressure or volume. The commercial diesel version of that motor has a good reputation for performance in the tractor pulls. Uses the same block but the compression ratio is much lower (17 or 18:1) and has other parts (piston, head, .....). The GM 6.2 and 6.5 diesels have the same problem because of their 21:1.

As you mentioned though there is the cost.

 

[Eafarms]

agreed, I was amazed not only at the responses to this thread. but the fact a member brought the correct part within a couple days, and helped install. having never once met. that is flat out amazing. and a true testament to the quality of people that make up the MV community.

 

[Jericho]

No doubt. I forget the number but VOLVO made a nice heavy duty RElIABLE turbo , it was used originaly in its european long haul lorries, good performance not real heavy on boost seems it was about 18 to 24 pounds, used to be lots of them around, havnt seen a Volvo in the north for a while , bet there are lots in the big, big rig yards