help with starting without Starting fluid.

[martinwcox]

Hi CrazyWelder72, your in the next but one town over from me, welcome to the hood.

Let me know if you need any help or want to meet up some time.

Cheers,

Martin.

 

[crazywelder72]

Defiantly !!! yeah your only a few minutes away. Just having starting issues now. ugh...

I talked to the previous owner today and asked him about his starting procedure. He hits the manifold preheat for 1/2 second then hits the starter with his foot to the floor on the pedal. Said it always fired right up.

I will try it one more time tonight. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Shawn MacAnanny]

i would crank it for 20 seconds not firing before i floor it. Starting at hgih rpms with no oil on engine parts is bad

 

[crazywelder72]

I understand about not having oil up top yet, and the high rims. I am hoping if this works that I can get off the pedal quick enough. I am sure there should be a window of opportunity for a few seconds to catch it before it runs away.

So if the manifold heater is pumping and I can hear it, how can I tell if it's igniting?

 

[crazywelder72]

?

I understand about not having oil up top yet, and the high rims. I am hoping if this works that I can get off the pedal quick enough. I am sure there should be a window of opportunity for a few seconds to catch it before it runs away.

So if the manifold heater is pumping and I can hear it, how can I tell if it's igniting?

 

[Vintage iron]

I was having starting issues with my M813. It turned out to be a bad feed line . The line was restricting the flow of fuel. What model is your truck? I had a M54 with a multifuel and the fuel tank had some crap in it.

 

[crazywelder72]

It's a 72 kaiser m35a2 with the 456 Hercules multifuel. The fuel in it was horrible and smelled like turpentine. All 3 filters were changed and the tank was drained as best as possible ( the bottom has a massive dent so there is still old crap fuel in the low spots as the drain was the high spot). I have good fuel pressure coming out the bleeder screw. I tried to do what the previous owner did last night and again this morning but it didn't work. I also tried the 20 seconds first to get some oil up top before firing and that didn't work either (see proper use of the correctly spelled word. lol) . I know that was more for protecting damage to the motor than getting it to fire but i wanted to let you know i tried it.

 

[crazywelder72]

Lots to update today. so my curiosity about this flame heater lead me to look for some videos on Utube. I found a nice video explaining the components and i was thinking to my self "That's It?" It was just as easy as working on a home heating oil burner. Anyhow i looked under my hood and the feed and return line were disconnected and looped together, totally isolated from the intake. I removed and disassembled the nozzle and reinstalled it only to see it leaking when i tested it. so i took it apart again and went to a excellent true-value hardware store and got the 3 o-rings i needed. got home, hooked it up, and tried it, she cranked for about 10 seconds and fired right up. no leaks. I still will try to get to the bottom of the reason of why i need to use it now but i am happy that i can get away from using starting fluid. Check this out, kind of funny.

0309121740 - YouTube

 

[maccus]

Glad you got it to start in a reasonable amount time. As I mentioned above I am willing to bet that most folks using a flame heater that cannot start their M35A2 trucks when it is cold have a flame heater that for whatever reason is not working correctly. I have seen just about all the components fail in that system at one time or another causing a hard starting truck. At least this holds true for a truck that is otherwise functioning correctly.

 

[doghead]

Great video, thanks for sharing that!

 

[crazywelder72]

Did some exploring of basic fuel pressure today. To make it as short as possible we had good pressure being supplied from the pump in the tank all the way up to the injector pump. We had NO pressure after the HH. Is the HH something that can be cleaned and reinstalled?

 

[gimpyrobb]

You have some specifics that are lacking. The fuel leaves the tank and goes to the primary filter. Then it heads over to the booster pump at the bottom of the IP. Next it travels to the 2nd and final filter. Finally heading to the Hydro head. (yes it might go to the FDC, but if you have half a brain, you would bypass it.) (I guess I should state my last parenthesis is aimed at everyone, not the OP.)

SO where does fuel pressure die?

 

[crazywelder72]

he doubble checked pressure going into and out of the primary, going into the secondary and out of the final. all was good here visually (didn't have anything to verify the psi).

I am not up to speed on all the abbreviations, what is FDC? He disconnected a line at the injector nozzle and it had no pressure up top. we didn't remove a line down at the HH as the rubber boots that cover the fuel line nuts were painted over and i will need to free those up. It seems it has no pressure up at the injector

 

[gimpyrobb]

Ok, you will not get fuel out of the injector or the "hard lines" to the injector, till the motor is running. With out a pressure gauge, its worthless.

 

[crazywelder72]

ok, thanks for the tip. should i test all 6 lines? once its running it sounds fine. but if your at idle and the air pump needs to kick on it dies. or it you max out the steering with the hydraulic pump under load, it dies also. i need to get to the bottom of this starting issue.

 

[derby]

Two things come to mind reading the last couple pages.

1. Your fuel tank is crushed, could this be causing some restriction on the in tank pump?

2. You connected and repaired the flame heater. Is it possable that you had an air leak where the lines were looped and you fixed the air leak? where did the supply line loop to?

 

[crazywelder72]

(1)i need to remove the tank pump and inspect it. i dont think this is the culprit because we seem to have plenty of pressure south of the injector pump.

(2) the feed line was coupled directly into the return line for the flame heater. The nozzle was still attached to the intake. Besides replacing the orings in the nozzle, all i had to do is add tefflon tape over the nipples and reassemble.

 

[derby]

I am wondering if that bypass to the return line was lowering your fuel pressure at the IP head. unless I am not reading you right.

I think Gimp was refering to fuel pressure in the fuel lines not the injection lines. Did you happen to remove the fuel line that goes to the back if the Hydraulic head (where the rubber painted boots are) that is an important place to have good pressure.

 

[plym49]

It is beginning to sound like the problem is not that your motor simply won't start without ether, but that it has a problem running at low fuel rates (low rpm and low load). I believe that some have said that it sounds like a HH problem; what else could explain this?

Also, since your motor runs at larger fuel rates/higher rpm, it is not a problem with your tank or the in-tank pump or a filter, because a problem there would get worse at higher throttle openings.

 

[crazywelder72]

cool, thanks for the confirmation on the tank pump.

no i didnt remove that line, but i will check it out. i dont think the manifold heater lines had anything to do with whats going on