Legal bumper height?

[sirmrtow]

in indiana cdl law is 26001 lbs or above or full air brakes

 

[Bighurt]

How did a bumper height question turn into a lot of states require a CDL to drive a deuce? I have never heard anyone say a deuce needed a CDL except in CA and even that is open to some debate.

OP talked to his LE.

Many states govern their drivers license classes by GVWR, I am only directly familiar with CA and ND. In ND Class D only covers to 26000GVWR in CA a Class C only covers triple axle trucks up to 10000GVW. In either case your over the limit, with an M35. So a Class A is required otherwise reffered to as CDL.

Historic plates have nothing to do with your drivers lisence.

Cheers

 

[vtach]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
How did a bumper height question turn into a lot of states require a CDL to drive a deuce? I have never heard anyone say a deuce needed a CDL except in CA and even that is open to some debate.


Its not just about weight. In IL., the only vehicles permitted to have a frame to floor that exceeds 28" , and/or a front bumper greater that eceeds 28" / 30" rear is to register it as a commercial vehicle which then requires a commercial license. Then the semi annual inspections come along with it. A stock deuce exceeds all of these limits.

 

[Michael]

A deuce is under 26000 pounds. This is the first time I have ever heard of any state using frame to floor height to classify a vehicle as commercial or not. Is this a new law? Also just being classified as commercial vehicle doesn't automatically mean you need a CDL. You have to be over 26000, hauling hazardous material or more than 15 passengers according to federal standards which most states follow.

 

[Bighurt]

A deuce is under 26000 pounds. This is the first time I have ever heard of any state using frame to floor height to classify a vehicle as commercial or not. Is this a new law? Also just being classified as commercial vehicle doesn't automatically mean you need a CDL. You have to be over 26000, hauling hazardous material or more than 15 passengers according to federal standards which most states follow.

There is a difference in GVW and GVWR, in ND anything over 26000 GVWR which a duece is, requires a CDL.

No being classified as commercial doesn't necessarily mean you need a CDL, for example a pick-up truck in CA requires commercial tags but the GVW is less than required for a CDL.

If you have a Class A in most states you can't haul passengers, that requires a Class B.

 

[Michael]

Mine has a GVWR or 23030. Where are you getting your figures from?

Michael : photos : NewM35A2- powered by SmugMug

 

[Bighurt]

Mine has a GVWR or 23030. Where are you getting your figures from?

I got the same Data plate but ND doesn't read it the same way. They add their own figure to the curb and load. Mine is registered at 27300.

I asked they are fixed, not all states do the same. What does your pink slip read?

As a point of reference my K1500 is registered at 10000.

The may add towing figures as well but that still doesn't add up. I tryed to do the math...ND DMV has some weird addition.

Please keep in mind I have stuck to the fact I don't know all state laws.

Cheers!

 

[Michael]

It doesn't have a weight on it. You have the only deuce I have ever heard of that is registered at over 26000.

This thread is really interesting. I used to think that CA was the only one that required a CDL and even that has been debated to death in other threads. Now I learn that ND can make up any GVWR they want and make you have one and IL makes you have one because it is too tall. I am surprised that more people aren't commenting on this news.

 

[Bighurt]

It doesn't have a weight on it. You have the only deuce I have ever heard of that is registered at over 26000.

This thread is really interesting. I used to think that CA was the only one that required a CDL and even that has been debated to death in other threads. Now I learn that ND can make up any GVWR they want and make you have one and IL makes you have one because it is too tall. I am surprised that more people aren't commenting on this news.

I suspect there are other issues elsewhere but most people just play dumb. And really I've never been pulled over, I'm illegal as sin atm.

Cali has the triple axle rule not many ways around that unless your bobed...

reg 27052
dry weight 13562

I'll do some more research...

 

[ida34]

I would be willing the bet that the "requirement" is based on the bumper height. In other words, a commercial vehicle can have a taller bumper than a none commercial. If this is the case then the obvious way around this is to build the bumper up so it complies with the bumper height restriction. This does not mean the deuce requires a cdl. It means the non commercial trucks must have a lower bumper.

 

[Bighurt]

I would be willing the bet that the "requirement" is based on the bumper height. In other words, a commercial vehicle can have a taller bumper than a none commercial. If this is the case then the obvious way around this is to build the bumper up so it complies with the bumper height restriction. This does not mean the deuce requires a cdl. It means the non commercial trucks must have a lower bumper.

I agree, by a similar nature, I already mentioned in CA pickups require Commercial plates, but not a Class A. There is a difference between vehicle registration and drivers licensing. I think this thread has done a poor job of distinguishing between the two.

BTW CA rates pickups at the commercial rate to help fund the adopt a highway program. Essentially your paying a tax to clean up the garbage that tends to blow out the back of pickups...

Pickups with permanent toppers are exempt from the tax.

Cheers!

 

[Michael]

Well, I talked with the Secretary of State Police in length today. Long story short, in IL a stock deuce IS illegal to drive IF you do not have a CDL, AND the truck does not have commercial tags with an annual inspection (section 18b). The only other option is if it is owned and driven the military. No other way around it. AND violation of this is a class C misdemeanor in which the driver is subject to arrest, fines, and the vehicle would be impounded! So I guess even putting larger tires make you an even bigger target. Any lawyers on here?

Its not just about weight. In IL., the only vehicles permitted to have a frame to floor that exceeds 28" , and/or a front bumper greater that eceeds 28" / 30" rear is to register it as a commercial vehicle which then requires a commercial license. Then the semi annual inspections come along with it. A stock deuce exceeds all of these limits.

According to the secretary of state police, if you drive a deuce in IL you are subject to arrest. If I had been told that I would be more than a little worried. I hope there was a miscommunication when he spoke with the secretary of state police. A deuce does not have a GVWR over 26000 or any of usual things that would require a class A CDL. We have discussed this many times here. If some bureaucrat decides otherwise, it is time to contact the MVPA and challenge him. The only thing it does have is the bumper height.

 

[Bighurt]

A deuce does not have a GVWR over 26000 or any of usual things that would require a class A CDL. We have discussed this many times here. If some bureaucrat decides otherwise, it is time to contact the MVPA and challenge him.

Mine has 27052 on the tags....

 

[sirmrtow]

it must be a miss print or a 5 ton

 

[Bighurt]

it must be a miss print or a 5 ton

No its a M35 the state is uping the GVW for some reason.

 

[sirmrtow]

the gvw is stated buy the mfg not the state
and m35 with 14000 on it is way overloaded
but what do i know im a retired tow truck driver

 

[Bighurt]

the gvw is stated buy the mfg not the state
and m35 with 14000 on it is way overloaded
but what do i know im a retired tow truck driver

I agree and now that I am looking into it further it appears the sate mucked up. I'll have to send my tags in for adjustment. I'm thinking the state adds to the registration to get more funds.

I just found that according to state law Motorcycle registration is $15 flat, mines $28...by raising the M35's registration the state gets another $19...

 

[vtach]

Let me try to clear this up.
I have an lawyer looking at this. Antique tags work as does any other tag for 13500lbs. And the weight falls under the need for a CDL. The problem is, that a stock deuce does not meet the frame to floor height; or the front and rear bumber heights for IL. and many other states. However, these height restrictions do not apply to a commercial vehicle i.e. a cement truck as per section 18b. But now if it is registered as a commercial vehicle in order to get around these restrictions, you need a commercial license to drive them. Then comes all the expenses along with that like semi annal inspections, expensive tags and, many insurance companies do not like commercial vehicles for "fun" and no business.
I am still looking for a loop hole, but have found none. You can't even modify the OEM bumpers in order to comply, because the law reads; if modifications to the OEM bumpers are made so as to bring the vehicle into compliance, the measurement will then be made from the longintudinal frame rails, excluding all crossmmbers. (which will not pass). I will keep this thread updated. I am not trying to create a panic, but this is serious.
625 ILCS 5/ Illinois Vehicle Code.

 

[Bighurt]

I agree and now that I am looking into it further it appears the sate mucked up. I'll have to send my tags in for adjustment. I'm thinking the state adds to the registration to get more funds.

I just found that according to state law Motorcycle registration is $15 flat, mines $28...by raising the M35's registration the state gets another $19...

*Called and looked into this. ND DMV doubles the shipping weight for its registration, as a standard practice. However the HP doesn't use the vehicle registration as the determining factor for CDL. CDL is based on GVW which for me is 23526. The HP says I have the right to register the vehicle for any weight above the vehicle curb weight. So looks like I'm good.

That explains why my K1500 is registered at 10K and my M35 is registered at 27052.

That just made my day time to get the trap off and start driving again!!!

 

[Midnight Rider]

Not all body laws are under the realm of non moving violations. Some infractions are guilty without prior infraction. Meaning they can pull you over for it. Most states vehicle dimensions are allowed to be pulled over directly. Usually due to head lamp or tail light heights. Because they ignore lifted trucks doesn't mean your free and clear.

I wasn't saying that he was free and clear unless he got pulled over for something else, I was just commenting on what I have seen in my area. Several lifted trucks driving around way over the legal height limit that I had been told by a Illinois State Police officer.

As for the CDL, whenever my dad was farming, our Ford F700 grain truck had to have annual inspections, but we weren't required to have CDL's to drive it. I'm not sure what the weight of the vehicle was though. I thought it was 2.25 ton, but I'm not sure. It might also be different since it was registered for farm use. Single axle, dual rear wheels, 2 speed transaxle, and with a dump bed.