M1009 LED Problems

[Jerryparentii]

I have a 86’ M1009 and replaced the rear bulbs with LED and love them. I saw on YOUTUBE a guy do it to a tan CUCV. I got excited and bought them, but it was to good to be true. I don’t know why but the running light comes on but I have no turn signals. Not even the rear one work anymore. I saw a civilian vehicle that was similar to mine. He installed a LL554 flasher and BOOM perfect flashing lights. So I installed it too. And BOOM, they still don’t work. Long story short. Front and back lights turn on but neither one will flash. In fact when I turn the switch for the turn signal it gets brighter both from and back but no flash. Someone please help.

 

[chevymike]

Make sure you replaced the right flasher. I think there are two, one for the hazard lights and one for the turn signals. See if your hazard lights flash.

 

[cucvrus]

The LED bulbs do not create enough resistance to activate the flasher cycle. Similar to when a bulb is out and the indicator just refuses to flash. I encounter this many times up fitting new truck chassis. We add new flashers if possible or place a resistor in line up stream from the light. Most new vehicles need to be programmed with a laptop so LED's are operational and getting the correct flash per minute. Many just plain flash too fast. Hope that helps. I am a simple man with simple terms to explain. I get the jest of it. Good Luck.

 

[laquine]

Had the same problem with my M1009 when I did the convertion. The problem is the front fender side markers. The way the connectors for those markers is setup is that it has a 12v wire for the turn signal on one lead and a 6v park light source on the other lead. What I did was just cut the park light source (should be a brown wire) and ran it to ground. All signals should work, just wont have the side markers on when you pull the lights on. Take a look at the wiring diagram in the TMs and you'll find how they work. Took me a while to go through it all but it eventually made sense. Also make sure to get the right flasher relays for leds. I bought two United Pacific 90652 LED Flashers since it comes with the reverse polarity connector since the one original flashers that come with these trucks has a reveresed connector in the fuse block.

 

[cucvrus]

Had the same problem with my M1009 when I did the convertion. The problem is the front fender side markers. The way the connectors for those markers is setup is that it has a 12v wire for the turn signal on one lead and a 6v park light source on the other lead.
convertion.=conversion

NOUN

the process of changing or causing something to change from one form to another.
"the conversion of food into body tissues"
synonyms:
change · changing · transformation · turning · altering · metamorphosis · transfiguration · transmutation · translation · sea change · transmogrification

I don't believe this is true. How does a 12 volt system convert itself to 6 volt? I am asking because I am NOT an electrical guy. I doubt this is true. The wire just jumps over from the front park/turn socket and blinks in sequence with the front park / turn. Can some one explain? I think the LED flasher or a resistor and done. NOT cutting wires.

 

[chevymike]

Yeah, agree. Most cars/trucks that have a combo running light and turn/brake light use dual element bulbs. One element is a lower wattage (for the running lights) and the higher wattage one for the turn and/or brake light. What could be happening is because the LED doesn't have enough resistance load, somehow that front marker light is backfeeding itself and just looping the circuit and not allowing the flasher to work. Just a thought based on my auto electrical knowledge.

 

[laquine]

The fender side marker bulbs are only a two prong bulb. They are not a dual filament bulb. One side is fed from the brown running lights and the other side is from the turn signal/flasher relay. The headlight pull switch has a resistor in it that feeds the brown running lights which is usually 6v. It was done this way to make wiring simpler so these bulb are AC as opposed to the rest of the lights being DC. Even if using a bipolar led bulb, it will still cause issues with the entire flasher circuit. Took me months to figure out until I happened to pull the led bulb when the head lights were on and had the hazards flashing. If you take a voltage reading off each side of the socket, one will read 6v, the other will flash 12v when the signal is flashing. I'm attaching the headlight diagram for reference. If you look at the MARKER LT, the brown side is spliced together with the parking lights and rear side markers and stop lights, heads through the firewall and into the headlight pull switch. (Ignore the marked green and tan lines)

 

[Curtisje]

The fender side marker bulbs are only a two prong bulb. They are not a dual filament bulb. One side is fed from the brown running lights and the other side is from the turn signal/flasher relay. The headlight pull switch has a resistor in it that feeds the brown running lights which is usually 6v. It was done this way to make wiring simpler so these bulb are AC as opposed to the rest of the lights being DC. Even if using a bipolar led bulb, it will still cause issues with the entire flasher circuit. Took me months to figure out until I happened to pull the led bulb when the head lights were on and had the hazards flashing. If you take a voltage reading off each side of the socket, one will read 6v, the other will flash 12v when the signal is flashing. I'm attaching the headlight diagram for reference. If you look at the MARKER LT, the brown side is spliced together with the parking lights and rear side markers and stop lights, heads through the firewall and into the headlight pull switch. (Ignore the marked green and tan lines)View attachment 789244

You lost me. I don't see how that is so.

The bulb is two pronged because one prong is for power (+) and one for ground (-).

I ran into the same problems when I converted to all LED lights and bulbs... no blinking when the turn signal is activated. I just replaced one set of rear tail/turn lights with incandescent and everything works fine now including my LED side markers. Yup, I didn't fix the problem but I fixed the problem for me.

 

[laquine]

You lost me. I don't see how that is so.

The bulb is two pronged because one prong is for power (+) and one for ground (-).

I ran into the same problems when I converted to all LED lights and bulbs... no blinking when the turn signal is activated. I just replaced one set of rear tail/turn lights with incandescent and everything works fine now including my LED side markers. Yup, I didn't fix the problem but I fixed the problem for me.

If we look at the drivers side front marker light, the brown wire is +6v(when light switch is pulled) and the light blue is +12v(only hot when signal is flashing). It's technically alternating current since it has no "real" ground like direct current but it is "grounded" through both wires when its lit. It's an odd setup that confuses me too but the only way to make the flashers work when everything else has been changed over to led is to either cut the brown wires coming off the front marker leds and ground them, of just leave them as incandescents.

 

[Curtisje]

If we look at the drivers side front marker light, the brown wire is +6v(when light switch is pulled) and the light blue is +12v(only hot when signal is flashing). It's technically alternating current since it has no "real" ground like direct current but it is "grounded" through both wires when its lit. It's an odd setup that confuses me too but the only way to make the flashers work when everything else has been changed over to led is to either cut the brown wires coming off the front marker leds and ground them, of just leave them as incandescents.

Well this will take some time, as it did for you, to figure out.

I do have working LEDs in my side markers.

 

[laquine]

Well this will take some time, as it did for you, to figure out.

I do have working LEDs in my side markers.

Could be that there's a difference in wiring between the CUCV line up. I know that the M1010 has a way more complex wiring diagram than the others that even I have yet to fully understand.

 

[cucvrus]

 

[ssdvc]

The fender side marker bulbs are only a two prong bulb. They are not a dual filament bulb. One side is fed from the brown running lights and the other side is from the turn signal/flasher relay. The headlight pull switch has a resistor in it that feeds the brown running lights which is usually 6v. It was done this way to make wiring simpler so these bulb are AC as opposed to the rest of the lights being DC. Even if using a bipolar led bulb, it will still cause issues with the entire flasher circuit. Took me months to figure out until I happened to pull the led bulb when the head lights were on and had the hazards flashing. If you take a voltage reading off each side of the socket, one will read 6v, the other will flash 12v when the signal is flashing. I'm attaching the headlight diagram for reference. If you look at the MARKER LT, the brown side is spliced together with the parking lights and rear side markers and stop lights, heads through the firewall and into the headlight pull switch. (Ignore the marked green and tan lines)View attachment 789244

I am confused myself. I didn't know there was both AC and DC in my M1009. Not trying to be funny, just trying to understand this explanation, as I want to convert my bulbs to LED too.

 

[doghead]

3 phase too!

 

[TechnoWeenie]

It's not 6v, it is 12v, it uses the high side as a path to ground through the front park/turn bulb. So, when the parking lights are on, it's solid. When the turn signal and parking lights are on, the side alternates.

Essentially, it's not wired to ground and park, it's wired across the parking lamp (low) and turn signal (high).

 

[ALTOcal]

So what is the solution to keep LED bulbs in my front turn signals and side markers? I am working on this right now. I have everything working except the front park/turn lights. My front side markers work as both parking lights (on solid) and flashing (turn and hazard). Again, the front park/turn lights wont come on in park, turn or hazard conditions.

I think the easiest option is to cut and ground the flasher wire of the side marker. This would effectively make the side marker a parking light and have no flashing abilities. @laquine is saying something along those lines, I just don't know about the 6V thing. It doesn't really matter as long as we get the right bulbs working.

Also, for reference I pulled my LED side marker light out on one side to see if that front turn signal light would now flash...nothing.

EDIT #3 - a potential solution is to convert side markers to the 1157 style and rewire so there's a ground. They would function just like the front turn signal lights.

 

[richingalveston]

I put led lights in all of the lights except the front two turn signals. I kept those two as regular bulbs and the standard flasher works fine.
Led in the side markers and rear lights. The led reverse lights I purchase work really well.
I got everything from www.superbrightled.com

 

[cucvrus]

I'll stick with my Trucklite LED headlamps. They are the only ones that made my driving at night easier. They also lightened the load on the lighting circuit. I put LED's thru out my old Crown of Thorns M1009. Everything that had a bulb. Only thing I ever noticed was the head lamps. Sold that and see it now on occasion. The new owner is a hacker. He has it all messed up. I miss it on my wood cutting trips but that's about it. LED's are good and they do help the old CUCV with the light circuit problem. But I never replaced the stock lighting circuit in any of my CUCV's I cut the melt fuse out and replaced it with a circuit breaker in line. Good Luck. LED is the way of the future for now. Something else will be along shortly.

 

[wayward_viewfinder]

I'll stick with my Trucklite LED headlamps. They are the only ones that made my driving at night easier. They also lightened the load on the lighting circuit. I put LED's thru out my old Crown of Thorns M1009. Everything that had a bulb. Only thing I ever noticed was the head lamps. Sold that and see it now on occasion. The new owner is a hacker. He has it all messed up. I miss it on my wood cutting trips but that's about it. LED's are good and they do help the old CUCV with the light circuit problem. But I never replaced the stock lighting circuit in any of my CUCV's I cut the melt fuse out and replaced it with a circuit breaker in line. Good Luck. LED is the way of the future for now. Something else will be along shortly.

cucvrus, what is the amp rating on the circuit breaker that you used to replace the fusible link?

 

[cucvrus]

30 amp.