MEP 002A/003A Auto Start Kit

[95blklsc]

I was looking around online last night, just seeing what parts or whole units are available and I came across an auto start kit that I haven't seen before. I'm not sure if the forum rules allow a link to be posted, but just search "MEP remote starter kit" on a popular auction website.

This looks like an interesting option for those who have their gen set permanently mounted or want to simplify or even fully automate the starting procedure. I could see this being a very wife friendly mod. I know some people have used PLC's to auto start which is a much more expensive and complicated option. Although PLC's give you a lot of things this can't, such as remote access, ability to monitor more parameters than the temp and oil sensor on the gen set, and many others I'm sure.

Just thought I would pass it along.

 

[PeterD]

Either it was a one time thing, and sold, or the search is bad--doesn't bring up anything MEP related.

 

[95blklsc]

It's there, I think the slashes he has in his title are causing the issue.

It's cool to see custom stuff like this being made for these gen sets.

 

[Isaac-1]

Based on the copyright statement I found this facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Inova-Hightech-Ltd/216684911680508

 

[95blklsc]

I saw that too. It looks like a small company (maybe single man operation) that does custom controllers just based on the facebook page. The only thing I would want to see given the potential environmental conditions is some conformal coating on the PCB to protect from moisture as well as some RTV or potting on the caps to add rigidity since there is a decent amount of vibration.

 

[Isaac-1]

Upon looking closer including the youtube video, there does seem to be a few points like this that need to be addressed. For example a high vibration fuse is probably also in order, and none of the DIP switches allow control of cycle cranking, if it even has cycle cranking on a failure to start the first try (no mention, and video shows a fast start up).

Ike

 

[95blklsc]

Great point. Also, I can see when it is pretty cold out that fixed pre-heat time option of 15 or 45 seconds may not be enough pre-heat time. I wonder what the pre-heat times are for the temperature dependent setting. Even the instructions state that one minute is necessary. Last week when I exercised my 003A I rolled it out of the garage and let it sit in the 25-30 degree air for a few hours before starting it. It was the first time I have started it in colder temps since I bought it last spring. The first time I went to start it I only pre-heated for 20-30 seconds and it wasn't enough. I didn't crank it a super long time but it didn't catch. I pre-heated for at least a minute and it started right up after that.

 

[95blklsc]

I just sent the seller a message with some of these questions. I also invited him here to join our discussion.

 

[95blklsc]

Here is what he said:

-Is the PCB conformal coated?
Answer: No (but can be conformal coated upon request)

-The tall caps are very susceptible to vibration, especially on this gen set. Have you considered RTV, hot melt, or some other form of mechanical support?
Answer: The Caps are hot melted (Not visible in the pictures)

-What are the pre-heat time vs temperature values?
Answer: The complete Table is in our Instruction Manual

-Any reason for 45 seconds of fixed value pre-heat instead of the 1 minute stated by the operating instructions?
Answer: Yes, these temperatures were chosen if the Generator Set is installed in a climate controlled environment.
The 1 Minute which is indicated in the Manual is outdated. The Manual's were written in the 60's and the Original 1 Min Glow Plugs and Air Preheat Plugs were discontinued as NSN in the 80's and replaced by 15 Second Glow Plug and Air Preheat Plugs with new NSN which are still valid as off today.

-Is the fuse and fuse holder vibration rated?
Answer: Yes, Up to 14 G

-What happens in a failure to start situation? (max crank time?)
Answer: The Crank Time is 15 seconds. If there is no Oil Pressure over 15 PSI after the 15 seconds the unit will shut down, indicate a fault via LED and the DC Circuit Breaker can be used to reset the board

-What happens at the end of the "warm up" time?
Answer: The Relay "Power On" is activated which controls a +65Amp 3 Phase Contactor. The Relay can operate any DC or AC Contactor with a Coil Voltage of up to 240 VAC and a max of 5 Amps. The Output of the Generator should switch through this external 3 Phase Contactor. The built in 3 Phase Circuit Breaker can then be left in the on Position at all times, as the manual ask for a delayed activation of this breaker after start. The cool down is a reversal of the Warm Up.

-Is there any parasitic current drawn by this mod when the gen set is off?
Power LED - 2mA

 

[peapvp]

Temperature Controlled Pre Heat Times

Thank you 95blklsc for asking the Questions,

I would like to elaborate about the temperature controlled Pre heat Times:

+55C = 17.0 sec
+50C = 17.5 sec
+45C = 18.0 sec
+40C = 18.5 sec
+35C = 19.0 sec
+30C = 19.5 sec
+25C = 20.0 sec
+20C = 20.5 sec
+15C = 21.0 sec
+10C = 21.5 sec
+05C = 22.0 sec
+00C = 22.5 sec
-05C = 35.0 sec
-10C = 40.0 sec
-15C = 45.0 sec
-20C = 50.0 sec
-25C = 55.0 sec
-30C = 60.0 sec
-35C = 65.0 sec
-40C = 70.0 sec
-45C = 75.0 sec
-50C = 80.0 sec
-55C = 85.0sec
The tolerance is +/- 0.75 sec

Our Manual Specifies to measure the resistance of each Glow Plug and Air Pre Heat Plug prior to installing our MEP 002/003 Autostarter.

The measured value for a cold Glow / Heat Plug should be 5 Ohm +/- 0.25 Ohm

If your Glow / Heat Plug indicates a different value then you either have a bad / failing Glow Heat Plug or a wrong Plug in the first Place

Please make sure that your Glow Plug is a
[h=2]2920-00-106-1817 Manufacturer[/h]

MFG SKU	CAGE	Manufacturer	Type	Status	Role
2920001061817	SCY13	E.C.A Etablissement Central DES	E	A
3330107	44940	Onan Corporation	A	A
333K107	44940	Onan Corporation	A	A
6A843G042K	3HCM3	W A P LLC	A	A
6A843G042K	58823	Wellman Thermal Systems Corp.	A	A
646-333-0107	55683	Wheeler Bros. Inc.	A	A

2920-00-106-1817 replace the discontinued 2920-01-048-8867 1 Minute Plug

The 2920-00-106-1817 reaches it's full temperature within 15 seconds.

 

[peapvp]

Pre Glow / Heat times when the auto-starter is set to Air Temperature Pre Heat Timing

Hello and Thank you for your Questions.

Here are the Pre Glow / Heat times when the auto-starter is set to Air Temperature Pre Heat Timing:

+55̊C 17.5 sec
+50̊C 18.0 sec
+45̊C 19.0 sec
+40̊C 19.5 sec
+35̊C 20.0 sec
+30̊C 20.5 sec
+25̊C 21.5 sec
+20̊C 22.0 sec
+15̊C 22.5 sec
+10̊C 23.0 sec
+05̊C 23.5 sec
± 0̊C 24.0 sec
-05̊C 35.0 sec
-10̊C 40.0 sec
-15̊C 45.0 sec
-20̊C 50.0 sec
-25̊C 55.0 sec
-30̊C 60.0 sec
-35̊C 65.5 sec
-40̊C 70.0 sec
-45̊C 75.0 sec
-50̊C 80.0 sec
-55̊C 85.0 sec


Our manual asks for a resistance check of each Glow / Air Pre Heat Plug:
The Resistance should be: 5 Ohm ± 0.25 Ohm for the following:

Glow Plug: NSN 2920-00-106-1817 Civilian Part Number: 3330107 / 6A843G042K / 646-333-0107
HEATER,MANIFOLD (Glow Plug): NSN 2920-01-040-0308 Civilian Part Number: AG49 / CH49 / 196 / AG9 / 138607 / 154-1487

After verifying the resistance it is recommended to remove each Glow Plug, check visually for any damage and connect each Plug to a 24 VDC Power-supply, capable of delivering at least 15 Amps - verifying that the entire tip of Plug changes color to orange/red within 15 seconds - BE CAREFUL! TIP IS EXTREMELY HOT!

Any Plug where the entire Tip does not change Color should be replaced.
Sample picture:
http://pad3.whstatic.com/images/thu...s-Step-3.jpg/670px-Test-Glow-Plugs-Step-3.jpg

If it takes about 1 Minute for either the Glow Plug or the Manifold Heater Plug to completely change color (heat up), then you have the original 1960's discontinued Glow Plugs:

Glow Plug: NSN 2920-01-048-8867[Discontinued]
HEATER, MANIFOLD (Glow Plug): NSN 2920-00-757-7144[Discontinued]

and you need to change those to the new NSN Glow Plugs above. The following Manufacturers make these Glow Plugs:

Onan, Champion, Cummins, Wheeler Bros., Wellman Thermal Systems Corp., E.C.A Etablissement Central DES, W A P LLC

 

[95blklsc]

Welcome!

 

[Speddmon]

peapvp, welcome to the board. That is one of the finest modifications I have seen for the MEP yet. Very nice looking board construction. Do you think you could post a copy of the installation manual to aid in the discussion and to assist in answering any questions that might come up in the thread.

 

[Speddmon]

I'm not criticizing by any means...I love the idea of a bolt on kit for this purpose.

That being said, I would love it if the kit had a few more options, and some could be able to be turned on or off by the user like...

1, Longer glow plug cycle times. You must remember some of these sets are 30 years old. Even with good glow plugs and manifold heaters, a marginal engine still might need longer
preheat times to catch and run.

2, Use oil pressure switch monitoring after the initial start sequence to verify the engine remains running (especially useful for older/more work out engines). Sometimes you will build oil
pressure within the 15 seconds, but your engine will fail to remain running due to a number of reasons. Try at least one re-start and then fault and show why.

3, Automatic restart after initial failed start for low oil pressure, with a timer to turn off the restart after the unit has been running so if you would have a true loss of oil pressure the set
wouldn't restart.

4, Voltage sensing and thereby automatic field flash at least one time for lack of initial generation.

5, High voltage sensing. In the event of a failed AC VR and the voltage is out of the allowed tolerances, the kit would fault the generator and have an LED indicating why.

 

[Isaac-1]

Overall looks good, I just wish it had NFPA-110 industry standard 3 attempt cycle cranking start attempts (15 second crank, 15 second rest, repeat 3 times), and standard 10 second delay before transfer to emergency power options on the DIP switches. Sure it is unlikely to provide full NFPA-110 support (fault lights, etc), but it would still be nice.

Ike

 

[Triple Jim]

The last couple posts are why I wrote a detailed set of instructions for operating our MEP-003A and transferring the house from commercial power to generator power, and had each person in the family practice it. Then I left a copy where everyone can find it. Sometimes the effort of learning to operate something is less than the effort of trying to eliminate the thought process, and better in the long run.

I was rewarded for my effort when I was awakened one recent morning by the CO detector beeping loudly, signalling the loss of AC power. I got up to change to generator power and found my son at the 003A heating the glow plugs, and starting it shortly thereafter.

Of course I understand that there are applications that require auto-start.

As an aside, my written procedure includes making sure the power is off for five minutes before transferring to the generator, to avoid all the failed starting attempts the refrigerators, air conditioner, and/or heat pump would have to go through if power were restored before that. If I were setting up a residential auto-start system, I'd include that five minute delay.

 

[Munchies]

I hate to even have constructive criticism when someone is making a new product for a 30 year old machine, but I want my cake AND I want to eat it
Maybe it would be reasonable to keep this board as the mep autostart 'lite'. And add more features to the current and charge more money. See which one sells better.

 

[storeman]

My understanding was this auto-start had no remote capability. When I watched the un-narrated video the MEP appeared to have started remotely and appeared to shut down by remote command. How is auto-start initiated? I exchanged messages with peapvp via fleabay and failed to ask this question. He did say the video would be narrated soon.

Fine looking accessory!
Jerry

 

[95blklsc]

I'm pretty sure it's just controlled by closing a NO switch. You could have a switch on the unit for it to auto start, you could have one in the house, or you could wire it to an auto transfer switch. One button can start it instead of having to go through the whole sequence. I could see this being a simple way to make a gen set like this more user friendly to the person that isn't familiar with it (wife, kids, neighbor, etc).

 

[storeman]

I agree.