MEP-003A stalling under high load test?

[justacitizen]

If it doesn't cure it, I'll certainly hit you up on rebuilding the injectors. The pump has already been gone through but I have no way of balancing the injectors myself and for one set, it isn't worth building a pop tester.

I'll take a video of how the process works. I use it in my IDI and my mercedes diesels after running long term on alternative fuels and it cleans up the injector coking and such in 15-20 minutes of idle time.

does the set have alternative fuel in it????

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

does the set have alternative fuel in it????

Not at the moment. Not that I'm apposed to running it.. but no need at the moment. I got this unit as non-running. Rebuilt the IP, replaced glow plugs and harness... removed the factory fuel filter setup and installed spin-ons... serviced it out and re-painted. It's been running now for 6 months or so and has been installed as a stand-by unit for our property.

I've just never pushed it this hard before. I load tested it to ~8500 or so and it never missed a beat. Now that it's installed permanently, I wanted to push it to capacity during load tests. It still takes the 8500 like a champ.. throw 12.5k on it and rpm falls to a low idle.

 

[Light in the Dark]

You need to give it steady load increments, hours, and a bunch of Seafoam.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

You need to give it steady load increments, hours, and a bunch of Seafoam.

Its got a few hours of run time on it now with treated fuel. I'm going to do the liquimoly diesel purge when it comes in (1000ml) and then run it under a load for a few hours.

I'm also going to check the droop adjustment on it.

I'll know more saturday about what is going on. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I'm gonna go on and order a few cans of liquimoly diesel purge and see if I can get them cleaned out without pulling the machine apart and sending them off for rebuild. I've had great luck with this stuff on other small mechanical diesels so we'll see.

Stuff works by disconnecting the fuel lines and running directly off the contents of the can.

You can also remove the last fuel filter, drain it and then pour in your diesel cleaner into the filter and then run it off the full strength filter contents. Might be easier than disconnecting and reattaching fuel lines. Also, after filling the filter up with cleaner I like to run for ~5 minutes to burn off what is in the lines, injection pump etc. and then let it sit overnight. My theory is its best to allow enough time to get some "solvent action" going on any deposits within the IP and injectors before running cleaner under progressive loads the following day. Of course its best to follow the Liquimoly Diesel Purge instructions.

 

[jamawieb]

Its got a few hours of run time on it now with treated fuel. I'm going to do the liquimoly diesel purge when it comes in (1000ml) and then run it under a load for a few hours.

I'm also going to check the droop adjustment on it.

I'll know more saturday about what is going on. Thanks for the advice.

How did the droop adjustment go? It could be the droop adjustment, droop adjustment spring or injectors.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

How did the droop adjustment go? It could be the droop adjustment, droop adjustment spring or injectors.

Didn't get to mess with it. Rain moved in and we had a lot to do as I was surprised with hosting Christmas dinner. Maybe tomorrow if the weather breaks.

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[Mr4btTahoe]

Ok...

Ran the purge through it today. Ran half of it at no load... half at 4kw load. No real change but the fuel that was returning definitely changed color.

After letting it sit for a bit after the purge, I ran it for an hour with a 33.8a load. Runs smooth and clean. Tried to throw the last breaker and its the same.

Then adjusted droop ad the manual says. It took quite a bitnof adjustment to get to the point where it would hunt/surge under a light load. Backed it off until it stopped hunting. Fired it up and now its worse.

Frequency doesn't drop as much but now it won't hold an 8100w load as it did before. Stalls out like it was doing with all 3 breakers flipped.

I started looking at the linkages and its almost like the IP has a bit more throttle to give but the plunger on the linkage bottoms out. This is while moving by hand. Not sure how it operates while being worked by the governor.

Checked fuel supply through the filters at the IP supply and it'll fill a 20oz bottle in a few seconds. Plenty.

Whats also odd is that when applying loads, there's no haze at all .. I would expect it to puff a little as the load is applied .. but rpm just drops and then recovers as if it isn't getting enough fuel to prevent the rpm drop.

Digging back into the TM

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[Mr4btTahoe]

After reading the TM, I think I need to pull the main cover and start from scratch on the linkage and gov. adjustment.. just reset everything by the book. I noticed the linkage binding against the pump as well while playing with it.

Looks like I've got some work to do.

EDIT

So... one part of the manual says counter clockwise on the ratchet screw decreases droop... where another part says clockwise decreases droop. I went counter clockwise and now it wont take a 8k load as it would before. I'm going to back it up and go clockwise and see if that works.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Now it'll take an 8k load. Drops from 61.5hz to 60.5-61hz... still wont take 12.5k.

Even if I run the frequency up manually with an 8k load on it.. still falls flat. Don't know if it's linkage or what.

It could be so many things causing low power. I might check timing while I'm at it since I've had the pump off.

 

[cuad4u]

Did you ever check the 4 injectors? As I posted earlier I restored around 30 generators. Several had similar problems. Every one had one of more injectors not "firing" properly. My two 003A's and one 803A will run three 5500 watt water heater elements for a few minutes without bogging down. This is 16,500 watts. I read all the posts and I still think your problem is injector(s). Good luck.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Did you ever check the 4 injectors? As I posted earlier I restored around 30 generators. Several had similar problems. Every one had one of more injectors not "firing" properly. My two 003A's and one 803A will run three 5500 watt water heater elements for a few minutes without bogging down. This is 16,500 watts. I read all the posts and I still think your problem is injector(s). Good luck.

You are likely correct. I've just been going through everything that I can before pulling the machine apart.

Did you pull them and take them to an injection shop or did you rebuild and test them yourself?

I'm planning on picking up a pop tester for my Merc. so I may be able to test them myself here soon.

 

[cuad4u]

You are likely correct. I've just been going through everything that I can before pulling the machine apart.

Did you pull them and take them to an injection shop or did you rebuild and test them yourself?

I'm planning on picking up a pop tester for my Merc. so I may be able to test them myself here soon.

 

[cuad4u]

On the 002A and 003A it is easy to remove the injectors. It is a 5 - 10 minute job. I sent them to a poster on this site. I forgot who but I think he replied to your post that he still checks and repairs injectors.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Hey all's...

So I've not found the solution to this problem and a new one has come up. Now, it won't hold any load at all for any length of time.

Adjusting valves, cleaning components, etc.. hasn't made a difference.

Yesterday, I was just letting it run with a 4500w load on it. Was gonna let it run for an hour or so but about 30 minutes in, RPM started to drop.

I killed the load and RPM picked back up.

No exhaust smoke at this point. I shut the unit down and opened up the cover over the governor area. Started the unit back up... Applied a heavy load. Governor puts the IP to full fuel position from what I can tell, but it just falls on its face.

Shut the unit down and disconnected the fuel supply before the injection pump and turned the switch on. Decent steady fuel flow.. probably 1/4 gallon in a minute or so. Reconnected the fuel line and disc the return at the tank. With the engine not running and the pump on, I get a trickle of fuel out of the return.

I'm most applications, I'd say it's a fuel supply issue... Acts like it isn't getting enough fuel under load.

What is the best way to test fuel output of the lift pumps? What should fuel pressure at the injection pump inlet be?

If it isn't supply related, it's likely injection pump related. I'll send it out for a proper rebuild if I can barrow not down to that.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Guyfang]

Are the pumps the right pumps, and not just look like the right pumps?

Unplug all three wires to the pumps. Turn the S1 to the AUX position. Test the three wires and find the hot wire. Plug it into the AUX pump.

Turn the S1 to the prime/Run position. Test the other two wires. Both should have 24 VDC.

Unhook the fuel hose to the IP. Get a container.

Put the hose into the container. Plug in one wire to one of the pumps. Turn the S1 to Prime/Run. do you get a LOT of fuel coming out?

Shut off the pumps. Unplug the wire. Plug in the other wire to the other fuel pump, and repeat. Do you get a lot of fuel coming out?

 

[Ray70]

As far as pressure at the pump inlet you only need about 5 -10 psi max.
After you verify pump flow, you can try to narrow it down further by making it act up again, then as it starts to die down, manually lift up on the linkage at the injection pump. If lifting it up slightly brings the RPM's back up, you have a governor issue, not a fuel issue.
If the linkage is already in the full up position ( full throttle ) or lifting it up further has no effect on RPM, that points towards a fuel delivery issue.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

Are the pumps the right pumps, and not just look like the right pumps?

Unplug all three wires to the pumps. Turn the S1 to the AUX position. Test the three wires and find the hot wire. Plug it into the AUX pump.

Turn the S1 to the prime/Run position. Test the other two wires. Both should have 24 VDC.

Unhook the fuel hose to the IP. Get a container.

Put the hose into the container. Plug in one wire to one of the pumps. Turn the S1 to Prime/Run. do you get a LOT of fuel coming out?

Shut off the pumps. Unplug the wire. Plug in the other wire to the other fuel pump, and repeat. Do you get a lot of fuel coming out?

All pumps are original Faucet 24v pumps and all click as they should when supplied power. Roughly a 1/6 of a gallon in less than a minute from the line right after the filters (is there a spec?)

From the response below, it seems like the governor is taking the pump to low fuel instead of full fuel as spikes occur.

 

[Mr4btTahoe]

As far as pressure at the pump inlet you only need about 5 -10 psi max.
After you verify pump flow, you can try to narrow it down further by making it act up again, then as it starts to die down, manually lift up on the linkage at the injection pump. If lifting it up slightly brings the RPM's back up, you have a governor issue, not a fuel issue.
If the linkage is already in the full up position ( full throttle ) or lifting it up further has no effect on RPM, that points towards a fuel delivery issue.

The governor seems to be doing opposite of what it should then. As RPM drops or as load spikes, it pushes the throttle lever downward.

 

[Light in the Dark]

All pumps are original Faucet 24v pumps and all click as they should when supplied power. Roughly a 1/6 of a gallon in less than a minute (is there a spec?)

Clicking does not equal pumping. It should... but it doesn't always. Have you removed the particle filters and caps and cleaned them?

According to Pegasus racing, that pump has "Maximum fuel delivery 33 gallons per hour at free flow", so assume about a half gallon per minute max flow. Sounds like you are getting less than that.