Need Some Help with Rear Axle Seal "blow out"

[Commander5993]

quick question, what your guys opinions of BCA bearings versus Timken?

 

[87cr250r]

Timken aftermarket is not the same as Timken Bearings. Timken aftermarket bearings are globally sourced and may or may not be produced by Timken.

I wouldn't fret too much over the brand of bearings. Check country or origin. Heck, SKF shipped all of their spherical roller bearing production to India.

 

[Commander5993]

Timken aftermarket is not the same as Timken Bearings. Timken aftermarket bearings are globally sourced and may or may not be produced by Timken.

I wouldn't fret too much over the brand of bearings. Check country or origin. Heck, SKF shipped all of their spherical roller bearing production to India.

Ok, thanks for the input. I thought it might have been something like that. The local auto parts store only carry BCA, and they have them in stock. They couldn't even order the Timken for some reason.

I have been pitching and catching lately, and just this evening got the truck back into my barn again. Took the front wheels back off and could feel that BOTH calipers would just barely touching the rotors. A couple weeks ago when I pulled the tires last time it felt like only the passengers side was touching. In anycase, I got my new calipers, pads, and brake hoses in last week.
So I pulled the calipers today, and once I got them off and could spin the hubs freely, I found that the passengers side wheel bearings are "crunchy" sounding. The drivers side feel and sound fine. So I am going to have to replace the bearings after all. Just going to do both sides, and get it done. Will have full new brakes and bearings all the way around, won't have to worry about it for a good while.

When I pulled the calipers I also found the passengers side pads were not wearing right, not just one thin and one thick though, the inner pad was wearing at an angle or something. Also the pad was crumbling around the edges and one of the brads was showing where the pad had cracked out.

In any case, tomorrow I'm going to have to drain the front differential, was going to change the fluid anyway. Then get the hub apart and get the lock nuts out. I think I can do that without a socket, as I need it to take with me so I can get the correct socket to torque them back when reassembly. Hopefully they will have the right socket in stock. Going to get the rotors turned too. Need to get this all done and back together as I need the truck. Also got so much other work to do too. Calling it a day for now.

 

[Mullaney]

Ok, thanks for the input. I thought it might have been something like that. The local auto parts store only carry BCA, and they have them in stock. They couldn't even order the Timken for some reason.

I have been pitching and catching lately, and just this evening got the truck back into my barn again. Took the front wheels back off and could feel that BOTH calipers would just barely touching the rotors. A couple weeks ago when I pulled the tires last time it felt like only the passengers side was touching. In anycase, I got my new calipers, pads, and brake hoses in last week.
So I pulled the calipers today, and once I got them off and could spin the hubs freely, I found that the passengers side wheel bearings are "crunchy" sounding. The drivers side feel and sound fine. So I am going to have to replace the bearings after all. Just going to do both sides, and get it done. Will have full new brakes and bearings all the way around, won't have to worry about it for a good while.

When I pulled the calipers I also found the passengers side pads were not wearing right, not just one thin and one thick though, the inner pad was wearing at an angle or something. Also the pad was crumbling around the edges and one of the brads was showing where the pad had cracked out.

In any case, tomorrow I'm going to have to drain the front differential, was going to change the fluid anyway. Then get the hub apart and get the lock nuts out. I think I can do that without a socket, as I need it to take with me so I can get the correct socket to torque them back when reassembly. Hopefully they will have the right socket in stock. Going to get the rotors turned too. Need to get this all done and back together as I need the truck. Also got so much other work to do too. Calling it a day for now.

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Based on your description, I am of the opinion that the new parts are going to solve your troubles.
Can't wait to hear how it all works out...

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[Commander5993]

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Based on your description, I am of the opinion that the new parts are going to solve your troubles.
Can't wait to hear how it all works out...

.

sure hope so, I started out replacing the hood latch and cable... and ended up rebuilding half the truck
just what I have done since january when this all started with a hood latch:

replaced hood latch and cable as hood had been hard to open, then wouldn't open at all without spending half hour to get it open with screwdriver. also changed oil and filter.

fixing the hood latch somehow broke the starter [sarcasm] as the next day truck wouldn't start... at least I could open the hood now.... had to tap on starter with someone hitting key before it finally started. starter sounded like it was falling apart. replaced with wilson

after fixing starter, alternator light wouldn't go off and had a squealing noise that sounded like a bad bearing. pulled alternator, torn down, couldn't find anything apparent, bearings seemed fine. reinstalled, still squealed but not as bad, light would go off after hitting gas pedal. bought all new belts, still have to install these.

while I was working with electrical... wanted to fix fuel gauge, as I almost ran out of fuel once and didn't want someone else driving the truck and then have to go get them. added 3 pages to someone else's older thread ( Fuel System Thread ) ended up dropping and replacing fuel tank and straps, painted it all, replaced fuel sending unit - first unit I ordered, I instead received an A/C Accumulator for unknown vehicle?! ... had to ship back and ordered sending unit locally. replaced "circuit panel" in instrument cluster. fuel gauge works now.... but the speedometer quit working, must have pulled cable out of transfer case end, still have to fix

while I was working on fuel tank, I used rear tire to push my creeper around, saw I had grease on my glove. Found it was coming from rear wheel. Looked like a small leak.... So after finished fuel system, pulled rear wheel and found the mess that started this thread, and all that has ensued. replacing the entire rear brake assembly and bearings. and now the entire front brake assembly and bearings...

and at the time, I didn't really want to spend the $ on the hood latch....


but, will be glad to get it done and know that I have good brakes and bearings all the way around. even though I wasn't planning all of this, I would rather find it now before it got worse.

 

[Mullaney]

sure hope so, I started out replacing the hood latch and cable... and ended up rebuilding half the truck
just what I have done since january when this all started with a hood latch:

replaced hood latch and cable as hood had been hard to open, then wouldn't open at all without spending half hour to get it open with screwdriver. also changed oil and filter.

fixing the hood latch somehow broke the starter [sarcasm] as the next day truck wouldn't start... at least I could open the hood now.... had to tap on starter with someone hitting key before it finally started. starter sounded like it was falling apart. replaced with wilson

after fixing starter, alternator light wouldn't go off and had a squealing noise that sounded like a bad bearing. pulled alternator, torn down, couldn't find anything apparent, bearings seemed fine. reinstalled, still squealed but not as bad, light would go off after hitting gas pedal. bought all new belts, still have to install these.

while I was working with electrical... wanted to fix fuel gauge, as I almost ran out of fuel once and didn't want someone else driving the truck and then have to go get them. added 3 pages to someone else's older thread ( Fuel System Thread ) ended up dropping and replacing fuel tank and straps, painted it all, replaced fuel sending unit - first unit I ordered, I instead received an A/C Accumulator for unknown vehicle?! ... had to ship back and ordered sending unit locally. replaced "circuit panel" in instrument cluster. fuel gauge works now.... but the speedometer quit working, must have pulled cable out of transfer case end, still have to fix

while I was working on fuel tank, I used rear tire to push my creeper around, saw I had grease on my glove. Found it was coming from rear wheel. Looked like a small leak.... So after finished fuel system, pulled rear wheel and found the mess that started this thread, and all that has ensued. replacing the entire rear brake assembly and bearings. and now the entire front brake assembly and bearings...

and at the time, I didn't really want to spend the $ on the hood latch....


but, will be glad to get it done and know that I have good brakes and bearings all the way around. even though I wasn't planning all of this, I would rather find it now before it got worse.

.
Oh, that stuff we called mission creep back in the old days...

Yessir my original purchase of a M936 that needed a few hydraulic hoses turned into all sorts of other things - and it is still being worked on a couple of years later. Now I need to remove the radiator and have it repaired. Somebody here had one and I was going to pick it up and that deal just never happened for some reason.

I am with you all the way!
Had a blue 83 chevy pickup and it had that same pull to the right problem. Caliper would stick. Sometimes it would flat out stop the truck until it cooled off enough to move. Then it would be perfect for months, then hang up again. Replacing both made that problem disappear forever...

Makes a good story though.
And now you know more about your truck than you really wanted to know.
.

 

[Commander5993]

.
Oh, that stuff we called mission creep back in the old days...

Yessir my original purchase of a M936 that needed a few hydraulic hoses turned into all sorts of other things - and it is still being worked on a couple of years later. Now I need to remove the radiator and have it repaired. Somebody here had one and I was going to pick it up and that deal just never happened for some reason.

I am with you all the way!
Had a blue 83 chevy pickup and it had that same pull to the right problem. Caliper would stick. Sometimes it would flat out stop the truck until it cooled off enough to move. Then it would be perfect for months, then hang up again. Replacing both made that problem disappear forever...

Makes a good story though.
And now you know more about your truck than you really wanted to know.
.

I did a lot of maintenance on the truck back when I first bought it about 12 years ago. Have put 4 radiators in it... finally I got a total aluminum radiator including the aluminum tanks. Had to adapt the threads on a few fittings, but it has worked great ever since. And I had to replace the heads back about 5 years ago, as it blew a head gasket and the 6.2 head were riddled with cracks when I had them fluxed. So "upgraded" to 6.5 heads. Then got injured and didn't drive the truck for 2 to 3 years, but my Dad would drive it every so often just to keep it lubricated, battery up, and etc.

I know there's always maintenance to do and etc, and I'd much rather work on this truck than to deal with the computers and junk anymore on the newer trucks. But just wasn't expecting to do all of this right now when all I did was replace the hood latch lol


Got everything apart this morning, and got to town in time to get the rotors turned. Also picked up the bearings and races. And I got the 4 wheel drive axle nut socket that fit these axle nuts, took one with me to make sure. This socket has 4 "internal" pins that fit the axle nut. $35 for the socket. $170+ for everything today.

Question: I am assuming that a high temp wheel bearing grease, usually red in color, would be correct one to repack the front hubs with?

 

[Mullaney]

I did a lot of maintenance on the truck back when I first bought it about 12 years ago. Have put 4 radiators in it... finally I got a total aluminum radiator including the aluminum tanks. Had to adapt the threads on a few fittings, but it has worked great ever since. And I had to replace the heads back about 5 years ago, as it blew a head gasket and the 6.2 head were riddled with cracks when I had them fluxed. So "upgraded" to 6.5 heads. Then got injured and didn't drive the truck for 2 to 3 years, but my Dad would drive it every so often just to keep it lubricated, battery up, and etc.

I know there's always maintenance to do and etc, and I'd much rather work on this truck than to deal with the computers and junk anymore on the newer trucks. But just wasn't expecting to do all of this right now when all I did was replace the hood latch lol


Got everything apart this morning, and got to town in time to get the rotors turned. Also picked up the bearings and races. And I got the 4 wheel drive axle nut socket that fit these axle nuts, took one with me to make sure. This socket has 4 "internal" pins that fit the axle nut. $35 for the socket. $170+ for everything today.

Question: I am assuming that a high temp wheel bearing grease, usually red in color, would be correct one to repack the front hubs with?

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Red and Sticky is good stuff.
Honestly, with lubricants today I don't think you would find anything that isn't perfectly acceptable on the shelf at the auto parts store.

 

[Commander5993]

Ok.... been busy. Got the rotor turned the other day, and picked up the bearings and axle nut socket while I was there. Next day cleaned up all the hub parts, kept everything separated for each wheel back into the two trays I had everything in. Suddenly realized I'm missing an inner axle nut socket, the one with the pin. The nut I took to the parts store to get the socket was also an inner axle nut. So called the parts store asked if it was left on the counter. "nope, you had it in your hand"..... uhmmm no I didn't. I was carrying out the first rotor, with the intent of making two more trips to get the 2nd rotor and the box of bearings and such that was on the counter. Well about the time I was walking out the door, the guy grabbed the 2nd rotor and told a woman to grab the box. And we put everything in the car. I should have thought to double check to make sure I had it.

Now when I started cleaning parts the next day, Before I realized I was missing an axle nut. I can not remember if I took one out of the parts box with the bearings or not. I hate not being able to remember stuff, it happens all the time since my tbi. I just pray it isn't getting worse... Anyway, my Dad and I have looked everywhere around the shop to see if I laid it down somewhere. Nothing.

Got part # from TM, and I found ONE for sale on ebay. bought it the other day, $21 with shipping. supposed to be here tomorrow.

Had some plumbing issues that came up, so been working on that for the last two days, just got it done this morning. So started looking through the TM's for torque specs on axle nuts and etc. But it didn't say anything about replacing/adding the grease during reassembly.

So I guess I just need to put as much grease as I can in while I putting it back together? I'm sure there is probably a better way, special 'grease cup' tool or something that you can use to fill it after reassembly??

 

[Mullaney]

Ok.... been busy. Got the rotor turned the other day, and picked up the bearings and axle nut socket while I was there. Next day cleaned up all the hub parts, kept everything separated for each wheel back into the two trays I had everything in. Suddenly realized I'm missing an inner axle nut socket, the one with the pin. The nut I took to the parts store to get the socket was also an inner axle nut. So called the parts store asked if it was left on the counter. "nope, you had it in your hand"..... uhmmm no I didn't. I was carrying out the first rotor, with the intent of making two more trips to get the 2nd rotor and the box of bearings and such that was on the counter. Well about the time I was walking out the door, the guy grabbed the 2nd rotor and told a woman to grab the box. And we put everything in the car. I should have thought to double check to make sure I had it.

Now when I started cleaning parts the next day, Before I realized I was missing an axle nut. I can not remember if I took one out of the parts box with the bearings or not. I hate not being able to remember stuff, it happens all the time since my tbi. I just pray it isn't getting worse... Anyway, my Dad and I have looked everywhere around the shop to see if I laid it down somewhere. Nothing.

Got part # from TM, and I found ONE for sale on ebay. bought it the other day, $21 with shipping. supposed to be here tomorrow.

Had some plumbing issues that came up, so been working on that for the last two days, just got it done this morning. So started looking through the TM's for torque specs on axle nuts and etc. But it didn't say anything about replacing/adding the grease during reassembly.

So I guess I just need to put as much grease as I can in while I putting it back together? I'm sure there is probably a better way, special 'grease cup' tool or something that you can use to fill it after reassembly??

.
You could buy a fancy plastic "bearing packer" and use a grease gun to pack the bearings... OR you could hand pack them. Back in the old days before plastic bearing packers were available by hand and no gloves worked just fine.

Here is a picture off the Web (complete with blue gloves to keep your hands clean).



Kinda crummy that the folks who turned your rotor claimed no knowledge of your lost axle nut.

.

 

[Commander5993]

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You could buy a fancy plastic "bearing packer" and use a grease gun to pack the bearings... OR you could hand pack them. Back in the old days before plastic bearing packers were available by hand and no gloves worked just fine.

Here is a picture off the Web (complete with blue gloves to keep your hands clean).

View attachment 893040

Kinda crummy that the folks who turned your rotor claimed no knowledge of your lost axle nut.

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Yeah, I know how to pack bearings by hand. Just didn't know how to pack more grease into the hub during assembly? I'm guessing just basically fill it before installing outer bearing and axle nuts.

Was pretty disappointed by the parts store. Like I said I'm not 100% sure, but I sure think it was left on the counter. Just wish they had let me get the parts box myself, as I would have made sure to put it in the box if it wasn't already. Or at least just have said that they missed it and had it there. I'd been glad to drive back and get it. anyway, always something. hopefully get the new axle nut tomorrow.

 

[Mullaney]

Yeah, I know how to pack bearings by hand. Just didn't know how to pack more grease into the hub during assembly? I'm guessing just basically fill it before installing outer bearing and axle nuts.

Was pretty disappointed by the parts store. Like I said I'm not 100% sure, but I sure think it was left on the counter. Just wish they had let me get the parts box myself, as I would have made sure to put it in the box if it wasn't already. Or at least just have said that they missed it and had it there. I'd been glad to drive back and get it. anyway, always something. hopefully get the new axle nut tomorrow.

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I personally would say no.
If you pack the bearings correctly, an extra glob in that "well" between the inner and outer bearing shouldn't need to be filled.

I went out and searched for more opinions on "the glob of grease".
Mercedes claims a requirement for 60 grams in that "well".

I also found mention of too much grease overheats from churning and lack of a place to go when it expands from heat, causing more resistance and more heat. So, there is a possibility of too much grease.

Honestly, my experience is that I don't put anything in the "well". At one point in time, I used to pack a lot of wheel bearings on trailers. I haven't had a problem with overheating bearings and lack of grease with nothing in that space...

.

 

[WWRD99]

Yeah, I know how to pack bearings by hand. Just didn't know how to pack more grease into the hub during assembly? I'm guessing just basically fill it before installing outer bearing and axle nuts.

Was pretty disappointed by the parts store. Like I said I'm not 100% sure, but I sure think it was left on the counter. Just wish they had let me get the parts box myself, as I would have made sure to put it in the box if it wasn't already. Or at least just have said that they missed it and had it there. I'd been glad to drive back and get it. anyway, always something. hopefully get the new axle nut tomorrow.

That's tough to have to deal with. Sometimes I think half my brain is grey matter with no connections at all. TBI sucks!! I order most everything online and pick up and sometimes get it delivered....I can keep track of what I got going on much easier. Sounds like you put the parts in the trunk....any chance that socket ended up under the spare tire?

 

[87cr250r]

"I also found mention of too much grease overheats from churning and lack of a place to go when it expands from heat, causing more resistance and more heat. So, there is a possibility of too much grease."

That's a high speed problem such as electric motor bearings. Wheel bearings don't rotate fast enough for this to be an issue.

 

[Commander5993]

That's tough to have to deal with. Sometimes I think half my brain is grey matter with no connections at all. TBI sucks!! I order most everything online and pick up and sometimes get it delivered....I can keep track of what I got going on much easier. Sounds like you put the parts in the trunk....any chance that socket ended up under the spare tire?

yeah it sucks to say the least. had a number of issues. some improved, others didn't. have to take a handful of meds every morning and night. hate taking prescription meds with all the side effects they have.

the spare tire is on the outside of the back door. But I did have cardboard down over the floor board, I did pick it up to see if the axle nut had gotten underneath it or something. looked all around the back of the car, nothing. I did get the new axle nut I bought off ebay yesterday though

 

[Commander5993]

.
I personally would say no.
If you pack the bearings correctly, an extra glob in that "well" between the inner and outer bearing shouldn't need to be filled.

I went out and searched for more opinions on "the glob of grease".
Mercedes claims a requirement for 60 grams in that "well".

I also found mention of too much grease overheats from churning and lack of a place to go when it expands from heat, causing more resistance and more heat. So, there is a possibility of too much grease.

Honestly, my experience is that I don't put anything in the "well". At one point in time, I used to pack a lot of wheel bearings on trailers. I haven't had a problem with overheating bearings and lack of grease with nothing in that space...

.

"I also found mention of too much grease overheats from churning and lack of a place to go when it expands from heat, causing more resistance and more heat. So, there is a possibility of too much grease."

That's a high speed problem such as electric motor bearings. Wheel bearings don't rotate fast enough for this to be an issue.

Hummm.... I fully intended to check back here this morning to see if there were any replies. completely forgot about it though. So... today I reinstalled the hub and bearings, and of course before putting in the outer bearing I used my grease gun and put quite a bit of grease in the cavity. Guess I probably need to pull the axle nuts back off and pull the outer bearing out, and remove some of that grease.

Here is a photo of the inner bearing on the passenger wheel that went bad with the old grease still on it, before I cleaned it and the hub. There were metal shavings all over it and inside the hub. Today I found that there is a slight "step" on the bottom side of the spindle where the bearing rode, probably a thousandth, just enough to feel it. There is also a somewhat "rough to the touch" area on the "rear facing" side of the spindle, where I'm guessing it kept rolling over the metal flakes or something. Took some 1200 grit sandpaper and tried to polish it a bit and it felt like it helped. I think the spindle will be ok. Sure glad I went ahead and took this all apart and found it before it got worse.







Something else I found out last night was that the spindle had a needle bearing inside that the axle shaft itself rides in. Was watching a video on youtube, and scanned through the comments and saw someone mention this. Just hadn't thought it about it previously, but of course the axle shaft has to ride in a needle bearing. So this morning I pulled the brake caliper brackets, back plate, and pulled off the spindle. Glad I did, as the old grease definitely needed to be cleaned out and repacked. Once I got the bearing and seal cleaned really well, both looked good. Bearing rolled smoothly. So repacked it, and added some rtv where what was left of what appeared to be some silicone sealant, which came off in pieces. Just an extra step I guess to keep stuff away from the actual seal.

Took a while, but got it done and put back together, then installed the hub. Still got the manual locker parts to reinstall, but like I said I guess I'll pull the bearing back out and remove some of the grease I put in the cavity.

 

[87cr250r]

My spindles are worn with a step but I'm not about to spend the money to fix that (maybe I should because parts are getting more and more rare). Whatever, they work fine today and some better quality grease will keep them working that way for long time.

 

[87cr250r]

I use this manual when trying to explain bearing pack. It's concise and it's the only manual that clearly explains the base oil viscosity of the grease which is darned important.

https://cooperbearings.com/downloads/English/Assembly%20&%20Lubrication%20Instructions.pdf

Shoot, they cut the part about viscosity. I'll need to find an older document. Post pending.

 

[87cr250r]

Here is the viscosity chart.

https://cooperbearings.com/downloads/USA/US%20Installation%20Guide.pdf

What most of us don't realize is that greases have many different oil viscosities even within the same #2 thickness. All automotive greases from the parts store are ISO 220 base oil viscosity which is why they overheat when run at high speeds.

 

[Commander5993]

Here is the viscosity chart.

https://cooperbearings.com/downloads/USA/US%20Installation%20Guide.pdf

What most of us don't realize is that greases have many different oil viscosities even within the same #2 thickness. All automotive greases from the parts store are ISO 220 base oil viscosity which is why they overheat when run at high speeds.

So regular wheel bearing grease is not what should be used? Like Lucas "Red and Tacky"?