Power Steering Possibility?

[wheelspinner]

this has been discussed several times over the years. my view is that putting additional torque through the old steering box to turn the wheels, is just begging for it to fail.

This is not increasing the torque exerted on the steering box, it is assisting with the effort of turning the steering column.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Yeah kinda like if you had hulk hogan shauffer you around for the day in your deuce lol

 

[gringeltaube]

This is not increasing the torque exerted on the steering box, it is assisting with the effort of turning the steering column.

So what does a "torque generator" do then, if not increasing the torque - on the steering box input shaft....??? Tom has it right: this creates even more strain and wear on all the steering gear internals which we already know are weak links... see my post here.

G.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Ok but I don't understand is why is eastern surplus selling these at $3000 dollars then if the steering box is know to be weak.....

Picture is directly from their website

 

[wheelspinner]

So what does a "torque generator" do then, if not increasing the torque - on the steering box input shaft....??? Tom has it right: this creates even more strain and wear on all the steering gear internals which we already know are weak links... see my post here.

G.

I disagree. This device assists the driver in turning the column. The laws of physics don't change between where the shaft enters the steering box and the steering effort is exerted out to turning the wheels. That does not change, this device lessens the effort that the driver is required to input to turn the steering column. Just like a pulley doesn't increase the loaded weight, it reduces the effort to move it.

 

[gringeltaube]

Dan, I don't know... probably because there are people buying it???


G.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Yes it's not like putting a hydraulic cylinder in the column and turning the steering box. Basically you are putting the control input on the shaft then it is exerting the force on the shaft instead of you.

obviously eastern has done their home work, or they wouldn't be selling it's a kit to the public.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Ok so I have been researching this for quite a few hours now.... Seems like they are a very popular add on for farm tractors and sand or dune buggies. Apparently in a small light buggy they are saying they are twitchy in hard pack and pavement. I wonder if this will be the case in a deuce which has 4 times the size tires and weighs 4 times as much.....

 

[Hainebd]

Max tire size is 33" so it is only helping.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

What's the max tire size?

 

[Hainebd]

Max tire size is 33" so it is only helping. I like it. Air assist down on axle just asking for problems. I have installed air assist on over the road trucks. Works great when new and needs clean air to continue to work properly. On top of the assist we put strainers and dryers on.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

Ok m35tom and gringel might be thinking right to a extent I have found a few posts on tractor forums where they say they are hard on steering boxes but then again these are farm tractors that's are 60+ years old in all reality it doesn't matter where you put a hydraulic assist it's going to hard on something wether it be a drag link a tie rod a knuckle or even a steering gear box

It does look like a good viable option though

 

[klawrence]

On my M35a2 I installed a 5 ton power steering pump and saginaw gear.

loved the results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I8J5yi0P1Y

 

[clinto]

This is not increasing the torque exerted on the steering box, it is assisting with the effort of turning the steering column.

I am not so sure about that. The "fuse" in the stock steering system is the driver's arm and upper body strength. At a certain point, no matter how big the driver is, s/he's not going to be able to move the steering wheel. Think about a 14.50x20 tire that's stuck in a deep rut.

Now, imagine the torque generator installed inline on the column in that same instance. The generator now replaces the "fuse" of the operator's strength with a limitless (within reason) supply of torque. And the same truck with a tire stuck in the deep rut has a torque generator. Now, the operator turns the wheel and at some point, either stops turning the wheel or something breaks. Ever been inside the stock steering box? My bet is the box internals will fail.

Ok but I don't understand is why is eastern surplus selling these at $3000 dollars then if the steering box is know to be weak.....

Probably because their product, like all aftermarket products, are warranty exempt from "extreme use"-take your GT500 to the dragstrip, miss a gear and blow it up and see if they honor the warranty.

Also, if they're getting $3K.................. they're probably so thrilled that they're willing to comp a couple $50 steering boxes.



I recently drove a truck with m35-tom's power steering and if I had the money, I'd write a check yesterday. It's smooth, robust, powerful, replaces the worn out 50+ year old steering box, etc. The air assist kits are awful, they barely make a difference in comparison to "real" p/s and to me, they look vulnerable to damage in extreme offroading use.

I also think we should consider than in 1949 the REO engineers designed the steering box for what they imagined the largest tire would be-an 11:00X20 ND. I doubt they ever imagined something like the grippy radial 11:00's we're running, nor the ginomous 395, 14.50, 14:00 or 16:00 tires that are commonplace now.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

This is true....

but some of these power steering threads I've read are 4 and 5 years old. I'm having no luck finding a ross steering box.

I'm still considering piggy backing a orbital valve to the steering shaft and linking the two with a chain the. Running a ram off the axle ....

the drag link valves are nearly non existent anymore I called 3 large truck part dealers in my town and they all new what I was talking about but they said they haven't seen or installed done in over 5 years.

 

[JasonS]

This is true....

but some of these power steering threads I've read are 4 and 5 years old. I'm having no luck finding a ross steering box.

I'm still considering piggy backing a orbital valve to the steering shaft and linking the two with a chain the. Running a ram off the axle ....

the drag link valves are nearly non existent anymore I called 3 large truck part dealers in my town and they all new what I was talking about but they said they haven't seen or installed done in over 5 years.

There seem to be plenty of ross boxes available locally. If you do a web search; LOTS show up.

The drag link valves are available new from the oem supplier: Garrison. They also come up on ebay from time to time but, like the ross boxes, you have to know what to look for and be diligent.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

I'd like to see where cause I have been searching all week and called a few places to no avail. There are other members on here who also say the same thing. If I remember correctly even m35tom said it in a post.

 

[Lieutenant Dan]

The other problem I see with using a steering box such as ross or saginaw is now your modifying drag links and pitman arms which adds to more cost on top of the box and hoses and pump

 

[JasonS]

Ok so I have been researching this for quite a few hours now.... Seems like they are a very popular add on for farm tractors and sand or dune buggies. Apparently in a small light buggy they are saying they are twitchy in hard pack and pavement. I wonder if this will be the case in a deuce which has 4 times the size tires and weighs 4 times as much.....

I read this as well. Also notice that AFAIK, NO OEM uses this for their truck/car power steering. This should be the most telling that it is not the best solution. Furthermore, you will still have what, 9 turns lock to lock. It is safer to use a modern box with fewer turns as it lets you get out of trouble easier/ quicker.

 

[JasonS]

I'd like to see where cause I have been searching all week and called a few places to no avail. There are other members on here who also say the same thing. If I remember correctly even m35tom said it in a post.

Have you called the oem manufacturer: Garrison Mfg? Clearly, you aren't trying very hard if you haven't started at the top!

The other problem I see with using a steering box such as ross or saginaw is now your modifying drag links and pitman arms which adds to more cost on top of the box and hoses and pump

The drag link for the ross box cost me ~$100 plus the tie rod ends. I left the pitman arm alone. If this very minor cost is a deal breaker; learn to be happy with manual steering. I really don't think that you have read all of the pertinent forums or you haven't accepted that it takes some money to do this right.