Roadside safety: Stay Alive!

[Another Ahab]

As a fun fact, if you arrive on an accident scene and choose to help, consider the rate of closure of vehicles approaching you. As a rule of thumb the vehicle is traveling in feet, about 1.5 times the speed limit. So if you are traveling 60 MPH, 60 X 1.5 = 90 feet per second. For the math majors it is really about 88 feet per second at 60. if you are 300 feet from them, they will get to you, if they are not forewarned, in about 3 seconds. Bottom line, personal safety first, then get to helping the others.

Whole lot of good content in here. Great thread, Jeepsinker:

- Took CERT (Community Emergency Response Team) training awhile back, and that was drummed into us

- Do NOT become a victim yourself, because then you're no help to anybody (plus an added burden to the First Responders).

It's not easy to keep a cool head in an emergency, but it's key to helping out. Like Amer-team says, if you got time: training (from people who know) can't hurt.

 

[Amer-team]

This very topic came up last week at the WA DOT Traffic Control Oversight Committee meeting. What do we expect from first responders, even civilians if they come on an accident scene, or if they are doing traffic control under a non construction circumstance. We are considering putting together training for non construction personnel. It might be surprising, but there are a lot of law enforcement personnel that don't get much training in the ways of traffic control. Oft times they rely on the blue lights, badge, and gun to get their point across and don't always know the finer points of traffic control.

Sorry don't mean to be preachy, I started on heavy highway work about 1976 and began teaching this stuff in 97. Unfortunately I have been out of the classroom for a few years so my statistics and grasp of the code numbers is getting sketchy. I was the lead traffic control person on a 3 year I-5 job and accident investigator for the company. we had on average about one accident every 3 days. It made for a lot of reports. Fortunately no fatalities.

 

[wheelspinner]

I was the lead traffic control person on a 3 year I-5 job and accident investigator for the company. we had on average about one accident every 3 days. It made for a lot of reports. Fortunately no fatalities.

I ran tow truck in the Seattle - to - Olympia corridor. There are a lot of crazy people on that road. More than I ever dealt with anywhere else.

 

[Amer-team]

You have to love those Prius and Lexus drivers that are in such a hurry, they have to cut you off (while you are driving the M923) in Seattle traffic. It is amazing how little sense they have of how much Prius a 923 could eat in one or two bites.

 

[aczlan]

I rear facing work light at night could mask a person that's beside the vehicle.

I agree. I know that with the current LED light bars on the NY State Police vehicles, they are bright enough that you are blinded after you get past the lightbar and it would be almost impossible to see someone step out from in front of the vehicle at night.

Aaron Z

 

[tim292stro]

typos, spelling - yeesh...

Super Bowl Sunday, unfortunately a big night for drunks... so be careful!!!

While out for a drive to calm my youngest (cried during the last 10 minutes of the 4th quarter), we were heading east bound on Highway 84 (east shore). At approximately 2100 local time, I observed a vehicle enter the off-ramp on the opposite side of the freeway. The driver was moving at about 10MPH below highway speed along the shoulder (NOT the center median). As my wife and I were agreeing to call it in, the driver moved to the left towards the 880SB-to-84WB connector ramp the wrong way (880 is what I would describe as the one of the three main north-south arteries in the S.F. Bay Area, the only one on the east shore of the bay). My wife was dialing, and as she was waiting for an operator, we observed the vehicle avoid oncoming traffic and hit the end of the guard rail along the right shoulder (from "normal traffic" perspective) of the connector ramp. We pulled over to the center median and my wife handed my the phone to talk to the dispatcher who had just answered. The map below shows the path of the wrong-way driver and the location of the collision ("X") in red, and where we stopped ("O") in Green.

(map source Maps.Google.com)

We described the vehicle and mentioned that someone had pulled over, and the dispatcher said she was sending a bunch of units my way. Knowing the normal response time for this area, and not having been instructed to stay put, I got onto 880NB, got off at the next exit and took the 84WB ramp to consolidate my presence near the scene. My intention was to pull past the accident to where the other car had stopped, but upon coming to the curve, I noticed the car I recalled being there (a 4-door sedan) was no longer at the scene - nor was any driver from the wrong-way vehicle apparent. So change of plans, back to what I described in my last accident story, as far off the road as possible to the right (the side of the accident), 4-way flashers on - and about a fire-truck or tow truck+maneuvering distance away from the wreck. The car was partially obstructing the lane on a single lane connector ramp, and I had observed a few cars not notice the vehicle (lights off dark color) until they were almost upon it. High beams again came on to illuminate the obstruction. While I was on the side of the road I had my wheels turned all the way to the left (into traffic away from the guard rail) as a few other good samaritans were pulling over and checking if anything was okay (it's great that people would do this) I directed them to the passenger side window (away from traffic) and my proximity to the guard rail forced them to step over to the protected side of the rail to talk to us. We never roll the window down more than we have to when talking to strangers on the side of the road - this is a good point to bring up. In my work as a loss prevention officer, I have seen the worst in people, so I am cautious of everyone until vetted. All of the other good Samaritans dispersed no one from the wreck was there so no one needed help, we had called it in and had witnessed the accident so we had more information than anyone else there. Despite what I thought was a good description of the wreck, we saw CHP speeding all over the place code-3 but not towards us - hey maybe it is a busy night .

I redialed 911 to update the dispatcher about no one from the wreck on the scene, but as the dispatcher was answering the CHP officers found us, my three-year old counted four cruisers . I made sure that the dispatcher knew I was just calling to give an update and that while waiting the officers had shown up. She said thanks and I let her hang up first (never dial 911 and hang up, this just ties up operators while they try to ensure you're not in trouble, it's hard to remember when you're excited). One of the officers took my information and statement, and the others started looking around for a driver in the weeds, or the bike trail that was under the bridge we stopped on. We were thanked and released, and had to pass the message on to a few other officers when they flagged us down at the other side of the wreck. My wife wanted us to take city streets to get the last few miles home, I don't blame her. My three year old was doing the 12-days-of-christmas inventory of everything he saw the entire rest of the drive... "1 bad driver, 4 police cars, 6 police officers..."

Before I redialed the dispatcher, I snapped a quick picture thinking of this thread which shows how I illuminated the scene and what it looked like, I had about 40 feet between my vehicle and the wreck (it's zoomed in, and I blurred what of the license plate I could make out in the picture to protect the innocent):


In this case I could only describe what I saw the vehicle do, I was too far away to see any people clearly and it was too dark to get any details about the person I saw leave the vehicle to talk to the other driver - I checked it out on Google earth, I was about 164-feet from the wreck when I talked to the dispatcher the first time.

(image and measurement source Maps.Google.com "EarthView")

No dash cam in this truck, and it wouldn't have been pointing the right way. Wife was on the phone with the CHP, so she couldn't video-tape, I was driving so I couldn't. In this case I never exited the vehicle while at the scene of the accident, all of us kept our seat belts on while on the side of the road.

Without knowing the circumstances of the driver (stolen car or wrecking their own), I did notice and eagle eyed readers will notice the reflective patch in the bottom driver's side corner of the windshield - as a Navy brat I recognize it as a DOD vehicle registration sticker, so the vehicle appears to belong to someone who serves. I feel sorry for that owner no matter the circumstances.

Bottom line from tonight - expect that everyone else out there on the road is out to get you. EYES UP! Look for the crazy drivers, I'm sure you'll find one faster than you expect!

 

[Valence]

One more thing about the collapsable cones:

The cones collapse to a base width of about 10"x10" and a height of about 2-1/4" with the rubber feet factored in.

I was just *barely* able to fit 2 of them into what I think is called a tall 30mm ammo can. (Probably compressed/flexed the plastic slightly.)

Bonus is that there is just enough room in the back for 4-6 flares (or something else) making each can a self contained hazard/warning "kit".

 

[Jeepsinker]

Just thought I would bring this to the top again. Was able to put these topics to good use last night while helping Fuzzytoaster change a tire on a 5 ton in the dark on a two lane road with no shoulder. Had the neon green reflective vest on, and decided to put some of my magnetic flashing emergency light on the corners of both trucks that were about 3' out in the lane of traffic still. That's the thing about these camo trucks, the tail lights are so far inboard that it can be hard for approaching drivers to tell that there is still 2' of truck hanging out in the lane past the tail light. So mark it with a magnetic light.

 

[tim292stro]

Good to have a traffic spotter with a flashlight if you have a few extra hands around...

 

[Another Ahab]

Good to have a traffic spotter with a flashlight if you have a few extra hands around...

No kidding, Tim29; you don't know how good that advice is:

- It actually scares me sometimes the people on the street in my neighborhood at dusk and at night that I don't see (if they don't have something reflective on them; and that's WITH my headlights on).

What's scary is that it startles me sometimes, but the people in the road have no clue that I can't see them, thinking that because my headlights are on that I can. What really gets me are the people dressed in grey or black workout clothes; more common than I want to admit (NOT good).

Not every street in my neighborhood has sidewalks, so people walk their dogs and take strolls along the neighborhood streets. Last thing I want is to hit somebody, but I have come close more than once.

 

[ODFever]

I have sidewalks on both sides of the street in my neighborhood. For some reason, my neighbors choose not to use them. I have a '99 Police Interceptor with the 100 watt driver's side spotlight. I keep it aimed on center of the road so I can flip it on when I turn onto dark roads. It works much better than high beams, and I can turn it off quickly if I see a vehicle approaching from the other direction. That spot has helped me see so many people that choose to wear dark clothes and wander down the center of the road.

 

[Jeepsinker]

Morons.

 

[Another Ahab]

Morons.

I agree (or ignorant for sure, anyway). But moron or not you still don't want to be the one to hit them you know!?

Been noticing the new dog leads lately though: fully reflective. Wow!

Pull onto the dark street, blind to the two people walking (almost inevitably in dark winter coats), and their black lab with them; but BAM!! you can pick out the bright reflection off the dog lead from 100 yards out; like it had its own power source or something!! Minnesota Manufacturing & Mining, I'm guessing (right? 3M!). Amazing product.

 

[Al Harvey]

ODFever, that reminds me of our winter snow here this year. The roads were ice with a lil snow and I saw a girl walking down the turn lane (5 lane highway) texting the whole time. She never once looked to see what cars were coming or going. I was just amazed at the stupidity, all it would take is one vehicle to lose control and bam it'd be over. We had enough issues trying to get our driveways clear with the tractor because of traffic. People don't move over and give you any room like they use to, I thought I was gonna get slammed into by a couple of cars during that.

 

[rhurey]

We live in a world where people have no responsibility for their safety. If someone gets hurt, it cannot be their fault for being stupid, it's the fault of the device / person / land owner who failed to provide a padded room safe experience for them.

Given that, is it really a surprise that you see people walking around with their head in their entertainment and not on a swivel? After all, if something happens, it's not their fault.

 

[Another Ahab]

ODFever, that reminds me of our winter snow here this year. The roads were ice with a lil snow and I saw a girl walking down the turn lane (5 lane highway) texting the whole time. She never once looked to see what cars were coming or going. I was just amazed at the stupidity, all it would take is one vehicle to lose control and bam it'd be over. We had enough issues trying to get our driveways clear with the tractor because of traffic. People don't move over and give you any room like they use to, I thought I was gonna get slammed into by a couple of cars during that.

We live in a world where people have no responsibility for their safety. If someone gets hurt, it cannot be their fault for being stupid, it's the fault of the device / person / land owner who failed to provide a padded room safe experience for them.

Given that, is it really a surprise that you see people walking around with their head in their entertainment and not on a swivel? After all, if something happens, it's not their fault.

My younger daughter criticizes me in the car constantly for how often I use the horn when I'm driving; and particularly for all the times she hears me say out loud (anonymously, to people ahead)

- "Please don't be stupid"

I think her anger is sort of funny; she (of course) does not.

 

[AZK9]

This thread is dedicated to preserving the life of our members and their families and friends.
Any and all competent suggestions and procedures to improve personnel safety in the event of a roadside emergency is welcome to be posted here. ...

Was out on the road in the deuce today and somehow managed to survive a few close calls.

Plain and simple... many drivers are 'distracted drivers' and as such... are very dangerous!

I thought I'd post to this thread, started a while back by Jeepsinker, as sort of a reminder
to everyone that there are many things we can do to help keep ourselves... and others in
a safety mindset!

With all of the bad weather out there... we've got to be especially careful.

 

[ODFever]

Over the past year, I put 1600 miles on my 1930 Model A 'Alyssa'. A's accelerate at about the same speed as a fully loaded Deuce. Everything on my A is mechanical. She accelerates slowly. I run her at 45 MPH MAX. She stops when she's darn good and ready to stop. Four wheel mechanical drum brakes give you ONE panic stop before they overheat and fade. She has olive drab paint that's hard to see at night. Her bias ply tires are more narrow than motorcycle tires. They find the ruts in the road and ride them like wandering rails. Keeping her pointed straight is a challenge in and of itself. When I drive Alyssa, I imagine that I'm invisible. I expect everyone to pull out in front of me, cut me off, and tailgate me. I also have to watch out for distracted drivers. Many drivers have never seen a Model A before. I regularly hear random horn honks, see smiles, waves, jaws drop (or total disbelief at what they're seeing). I never realized it until just now - driving military vehicles prepared me for driving a Model A.

OK, enough rambling. Here's a thought y'all might want to consider. Make a sign that says CAUTION: MAX SPEED 45 MPH and hang it on the back of your truck. It will provide information to the person behind you. I hung a very similar sign on the back of Alyssa. I'm most surprised that drivers read it and go around me, and has eliminated tailgaters.

The sign I hung on the back of Alyssa looks like this:

CAUTION:
MAX SPEED 40 MPH
PLEASE KEEP DISTANCE

 

[Valence]

OK, enough rambling. Here's a thought y'all might want to consider. Make a sign that says CAUTION: MAX SPEED 45 MPH and hang it on the back of your truck. It will provide information to the person behind you. I hung a very similar sign on the back of Alyssa. I'm most surprised that drivers read it and go around me, and has eliminated tailgaters.

The sign I hung on the back of Alyssa looks like this:

CAUTION:
MAX SPEED 40 MPH
PLEASE KEEP DISTANCE

Did you just have it custom made? Magnetic/reflective I assume?

I've seen a few pictures of signs like this, like a deuce with one on each mud flap and I was considering doing the same. Anyone able to provide pictures as I'm having trouble digging them up.

Thanks!

 

[Recovry4x4]

With my luck, the person trying to read my sign would be distracted by same and bang into someone else.