Rod knock

[JasonS]

The clincher was the Oliver Farm tractors with 7000-8000 hours without a rebuild. Same basic design and compression ratio. The difference is that the Oliver is governed at 2200 or so.

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8000 hours is about double what has been reported on the internet:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/73830-oliver-2150-multifuel-4.html
but most of the trouble in the tractors seems to be related to leaking fuel injectors.

The multifuel has a 22:1 compression ratio whereas the tractor is ~18:1. As you raise the compression ratio, the combustion pressure rises faster and higher. This causes higher strain on engine parts.

The TMs state 2200 is maximum crusing rpm.

 

[rlwm211]

True true...I saw a post of a individual who said that many hours. I do not necessarily consider the number of hours as important as the nature of the use. COnstant hard work, at high RPMs, is very demanding and if an engine can hold up for 4000 hours, that is a lot of miles and use.
Regardless, treating your engine with respect is something that will pay dividends over time.

On the original issue which is the noise, I wonder if a Pressure plate spring (or more than one) is broken and causing the rattle heard?????

 

[Jesse6325]

And a bit more

This is a shot of the engine, Honestly in this one it sounds pretty much normal. It hasn't been running long at all (Low air buzzer just quit) I did not hear the noise I though was a knock either..
The more I think about it I think/hope it's fuel related, I dumped my used engine oil in the fuel tank,,, Drove over 400 miles in two days, And now it does not want to run when first started with an idle when warm at around 550 to 600 RPM,,,,
Fuel system wasn't as clean as it could be to start with either.
Going to change fuel filters tomrrow and see what happens.
View attachment running2.wmv

 

[Jesse6325]

Plym, I honesly don't think the oil/fiter change had much if any thing to do with it. If it IS a rod knock I bet it has more to do with it just being an old engine close to the end of it's lifespan that did not appretiate a couple of 100 mile road trips in one weekend.
I didnt find anything loose in the bell housing either, I'll probably bring my borescope home tomorrow and tke a good look around in the housing.
One thing though, In the first video I posted that crunchy grinding noise sounds like its coming from where the input shaft goes into the trans,,, I think/hope that is what I confused for a rod knock.

 

[plym49]

I did not hear a knock. Maybe you have one when things get warm. But for sure there seems to be a roughness, so your hunch (and other's advice) regarding fuel seems a good thing to check.

I have a question about cracking an injector line to isolate a knock. Let's say #6 rod is knocking for real. If you crack the line at #6 injector, then that cylinder is not doing any work, and the knock can go away just because of that. It seemed that the advice was that if you crack an injector, and the knock goes away, then that was a bad injector. Maybe that would be the case if you had a bad injector, but if you really had a bad rod bearing, would not the results of that test be the same?

 

[TexAndy]

Jesse, was yours idling at 550 or 600 previously?

I've never been able to get mine to idle below 700.

 

[Jesse6325]

Good question Plym, But it'd be worth it to try a known good injector to find out.
It's not knocking in the video, It souds like it did when I first got it, Before I changed the fuel filters the first time.

 

[Jesse6325]

Oh,, And while I am thinking about it,,,THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR YOUR INPUT/ADVICE.
She may be old beat up and rusty, But she's my baby.

 

[JasonS]

True true...I saw a post of a individual who said that many hours. I do not necessarily consider the number of hours as important as the nature of the use. COnstant hard work, at high RPMs, is very demanding and if an engine can hold up for 4000 hours, that is a lot of miles and use.
Regardless, treating your engine with respect is something that will pay dividends over time.

On the original issue which is the noise, I wonder if a Pressure plate spring (or more than one) is broken and causing the rattle heard?????

4000 hours is still respectable for a tractor of that era using oils of that era.

 

[Jesse6325]

Tex,, After we did the filters that night it idled around 800/900. The drop to 500/600 and running rough is what's pointing toward a fuel filter change as step one.
When I was running it down the freeway I was darn careful of my RPM's did not let it get over 2300, 2200/50 MPH is plenty fast.

 

[zeisshensoldt]

My truck idles pretty low when I have the throttle knob pushed all the way in, something like 400rpm. It shakes the truck all to he||, so I leave it around 900rpm idle, smooooth.

 

[derby]

Just wondering, I did not read anywhere that you filterd the oil before you put it in the tank. I think that could cause a little trouble in the fuel system.

 

[scoutmanadam]

i was just thinking that same thing, i ran lots of oil in mine, but never direct from the engine to the tank, that may have done it

 

[ChuckM]

Has your fuel viscosity meter (fuel density compensator) been bypassed?

 

[Blueduce]

I agree with derby. You poured the unfiltered wmo in the tank, gave her a full crank case of new oil/Lucas, new filters and then sent her on a few hundred mile road trip with out allowing her time to get used to the new oil/Lucas/filters. She probably went into a bit of shock. The issue may be with your fuel pump. How much fuel was in the tank when you poured the wmo in. With that long of a road trip maybe you ran the tank a bit dry and sucked some crap up off the bottom of the tank. Start with the simple most obvious answers first. Just my

 

[goatijoe]

Hey check you bellhousing to trans. bolts they may have fallen out of place in there. That are the same marks i had when a bolt fell out of mine going down the road. Look and see if you are weeping fluid right there or is there a crack from them coming separated. There should be 3 at the bottom and 2 on the top if i remember right. the sound mine made was like a rod knock but would come and go till it found a space to stay in. If that is the case pull the tranny and check you input shaft bearing for play, you wont find it unless you take the main shaft out and remove the dust shield cover. GOOD LUCK!!! hope that's all it is for ya.

 

[Jesse6325]

Derby, Yes I just dumped my used oil in the fuel tank, I had about 20 gallons of diesel in there to start with and chased it with another 10 gallons. Then drove about 15 miles and topped it off with another 20. I was planning on my filters plugging up when I did this though. I just hadn't expected it to make that horrible knocking noise.
I had bee into the inspection plate the same day I changed the oil to grease the bearing and hadn't seen anything unusual then, Those scratches on the pressure plate are new to me.

 

[Jesse6325]

I have to admit I tend to ovverreact sometimes

 

[Jesse6325]

Yup Goatjoe,,,, As soon as I fix my flooor jack I'm pulling the trans, In the one vid I shot you can hear a nasty noise when I rock the shaft back and forth.
Dang, I just realized I didn't put up the video of myself rocking the shaft back and forth, I'll do that this evening when I get home.

 

[Jesse6325]

Some more updates

Ok,, This is the video I forgot to upload yesterday. The clanking noise is coming from the trans side of the clutch and the input shaft is not moving.View attachment Untitled_1.wmv