Starter turns when key out of ignition

[rustystud]

This is what our bus batteries look like. They are in 12V and 24V circuits with a Vanner battery equalizer to maintain proper charging. There are 8 separate battery cables. Needless to say there is a wiring diagram on the battery door. A few years ago one of our mechanics was in a hurry and didn't look at what he was doing and wired the batteries wrong. When they went to start the bus it caught on fire ! It blew up the four batteries ( these are Odyssey batteries and cost over $350.00 each) and ruined over half the engine compartment wiring. He was fired for incompetence since that one mistake cost Metro Transit over $5,000.00 .

 

[The FLU farm]

There are only so many ways a dual battery system can be wired up and I'm sure we can help you with that.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that there are two ways. Two correct ways, that is.
But if the goal is to get double the battery voltage, there's only one.

 

[Paycheck]

I know your tired and really frustrated with this truck, but just take a couple of days off and let your mind relax. I'm a mechanic or was before I retired and there where times I would just have to step back and let a problem go away for a time or even have another mechanic take over. After you relax and get your mind clear then jump back in and find this problem. There are only so many ways a dual battery system can be wired up and I'm sure we can help you with that.

Thank you


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[rustystud]

I took a look at the pictures you sent me. First off those battery cables need to be replaced. I can guarantee that there is corrosion at the connectors and brittle metal due to over heating. I would go with a larger cable size too. At the minimum I would use #2 cable. Also check the resistor bank on the firewall. It looks a little crispy. With some new battery cables and relay switch you should be fine. Of course replace the burnt up wiring leading into the main fuse panel.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Why not post the pics for all to see?

 

[Paycheck]

Why not post the pics for all to see?

I replaced all burnt wires last night same result um going to attempt to pull it to the shop with my jeep later today for a diagnosis


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[Tinstar]

Pull it to a shop?
Rarely do they know how to work on a cucv.

I highly recommend you hold off on that.
Step back a bit and read up.
Take one thing at a time. It's fixable.

A shop unfamiliar with these trucks usually make things worse.

Post pics here.
Guys with amazing cucv knowledge are here to help.

 

[The FLU farm]

I replaced all burnt wires last night same result

So you hooked up the battery cables as described in my email and the starter engaged when you connected the final cable?

 

[rustystud]

So you hooked up the battery cables as described in my email and the starter engaged when you connected the final cable?

How many guys is "Paycheck" sending private messages to ? I told him I would post all my responses here on the main forum.
That way it will benefit the whole community when he finally fixes it.

 

[harryhr]

Well, sounds like your relay under the dash is fried along with the starter solenoid and more than likely the fusible wiring on the under the hood firewall near the brake power booster. I don't think your alternators are fried. Your batteries should not be fried either. The starter relay under the dash is the problem for the whole mess. When you turn the key to start, the relay will stick internally and even thou you turn the key to off and take out the key, the solenoid on the starter will continue to spin until it burns itself out and does a job on the wiring under the hood. Replace the relay with the dog bone relay before you do any other work under the hood. Replace the starter and all the burnt wiring. I went through this awhile back.

 

[Tinstar]

All your issues are fixable.
Its not hard, just time consuming.
Doghead Starter Relay should have been installed first thing.
Then fix the rest, one thing at s time, as already suggested.

Post pics and questions here.
The knowledge base is greater if you share the process with everyone.

 

[doghead]

How many guys is "Paycheck" sending private messages to ? I told him I would post all my responses here on the main forum.
That way it will benefit the whole community when he finally fixes it.

Kind of annoying, huh?

Post it all here in the forum if you are going to use the forums.

Don't assume anything, diagnose and repair.

 

[Jbulach]

...Don't assume anything, diagnose and repair.

This ^ and look into a good multi meter to do it.


Or...

Sweet. Charge them up and do it again.

Several thousand amps, at a couple of different voltages, makes for very difficult troubleshooting!

 

[The FLU farm]

Kind of annoying, huh?

Post it all here in the forum if you are going to use the forums.

Don't assume anything, diagnose and repair.

At least two of us got drafted, as far as I know. Unfortunately I don't have the time/willingness to get reacquainted withe the CUCV wiring system, so I simply described how the batteries should be hooked up after getting some PMs, and later, emails. Figured that it would be a good start (no pun intended) to have them connected properly.
I'd like to help when I can, but with so little to go on (other than that repeatedly connecting the batteries makes the starter engage) I'm largely flying blind.

In an email I did point out the one thing that really stuck with me from analytical trouble shooting class; never take anything for granted, as doghead also mentions.

Yeah, armed with a simple Volt meter, or even a test light, I thought an issue like this could be resolved in a matter of minutes. On almost any vehicle.
For those that didn't get to see the photos, I don't think you missed much. Without the battery cables in place it was hard to tell what the deal was. Although, I didn't spend much time looking at them, so there might well have been clues that I missed.

 

[The FLU farm]

Several thousand amps, at a couple of different voltages, makes for very difficult troubleshooting!

Trouble shooting doesn't have to be performed "live". Using a 9 Volt battery is often enough when it's easier to have voltage in a circuit than measuring resistance.

It's bad enough that many don't like working on or understand the basics of electricity, and it doesn't help when (for whatever reason) the M1009/M1008 are looked at as nearly mythical creations rather then the mildly modified K-5/K-30 vehicles they are.

 

[Paycheck]

Had an auto electrician walk me through testin g everything it appears the alternator I replaced is the culprit the parts store sold me a non isolated ground alternator auto parts store is paying for all the damages I just need to pony up for the new alternator I appreciate everyone's help thank you


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[doghead]

You never mentioned that you replaced an alternator.

Could you post a picture of your under-dash starter relay(still not sure if you have replaced it or even checked it).

Rebuilding your original alternators is almost always a better option.

Same with your starter.

We need pictures in this thread to help you.

 

[Paycheck]

Sorry dog head wrong forum


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[Paycheck]

Been on several forums last few days


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[Paycheck]

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