Stopped by the NCSHP

[rmgill]

Some key points. Where it concerns definitions of Commercial Motor Vehicles in Article 17, Motor Carrier Safety Regulation Unit.

Federal law controls the definitions.

§ 20‑376. Definitions.
The following definitions apply in this Article:
(1) Federal safety and hazardous materials regulations. – The federal motor carrier safety regulations contained in 49 C.F.R. Parts 171 through 180, 382, and 390 through 398.
(2) Foreign commerce. – Commerce between any of the following:
a. A place in the United States and a place in a foreign country.
b. Places in the United States through any foreign country.
(3) Interstate commerce. – As defined in 49 C.F.R. Part 390.5.
(3a) Interstate motor carrier. – Any person, firm, or corporation that operates or controls a commercial motor vehicle as defined in 49 C.F.R. § 390.5 in interstate commerce.
(4) Intrastate commerce. – As defined in 49 C.F.R. Part 390.5.
(5) Intrastate motor carrier. – Any person, firm, or corporation that operates or controls a commercial motor vehicle as defined in G.S. 20‑4.01(3d) in intrastate commerce. (1985, c. 454, s. 1; 1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 621, s. 5; 1995 (Reg. Sess., 1996), c. 756, s. 20; 1997‑456, s. 36; 1998‑149, s. 11; 1999‑452, s. 21; 2002‑152, s. 3.)

You are by definitions, if not using the truck for furtherance of a business or compensation, NOT in Interstate Commerce.

Here is that section.
Part 390.5: Definitions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

 

[rmgill]

Another data point:
The NC CDL manual, the PDF version I found online at
http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/driver_services/commercialtrucking/cdlhandbook/download/CDLmanual.pdf

States in section 1.8: Exemptions and Waivers

The type vehicles listed below do not require the operator to possess a CDL. However, a non-CDL Class A or B license may still be required:

Vehicles used for personal use such as recreational vehicles.

That's the manual. Now, to find the statute controlling...

Mind you I am NOT a lawyer.

 

[wb1895]

There is NO statute cited on the citation. I have been researching the NC motor vehicle handbook and have found NOTHING about weights and antique plates!!! Like i said before I am a previous LEO of 6 years and have never heard of this before, not to mention the fuel decal on a tri axle truck. The trooper was nice enough to tell me that he had just been moved from the highway patrol side to the motor vehicle enforcement side.

I am going to file a appeal, but I doubt that I will get very far because there is no court date just a "civil fine". I have to file the appeal with the motor vehicle enfoecement section of the DMV within 30 days "citing speficic arguments/ statutes" that show I am in the right.

I am going to fight this until the cows come home or they show up with handcuffs......

 

[rmgill]

An administrative fine? How the heck do they do that? File an appeal definitely. I am firmly convinced the cop is wrong. When was reserearching this a few years ago, the NC Drivers manual showed trucks that were exempt. The line drawings showed a 5 ton, with the 'cargo' being a box with "Your property" in the box.

You've got the exemption from the FMCSA straight right?

390.3 (f)(3)

The regulatory guidance is key too.

Question 21: Does the exemption in §390.3(f)(3) for the ‘‘occasional transportation of personal property by individuals not for compensation nor in the furtherance of a commercial enterprise’’ apply to persons who occasionally use CMVs to transport cars, boats, horses, etc., to races, tournaments, shows or similar events, even if prize money is offered at these events?

Guidance: The exemption would apply to this kind of transportation, provided: (1) The underlying activities are not undertaken for profit, i.e., (a) prize money is declared as ordinary income for tax purposes, and (b) the cost of the underlying activities is not deducted as a business expense for tax purposes; and, where relevant; (2) corporate sponsorship is not involved. Drivers must confer with their State of licensure to determine the licensing provisions to which they are subject.

Interpretation for General applicability. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration


Another thing to point out. If they try to argue that you're commercial no matter what, ask about U-haul trucks that are in the same LARGE but still Class C territory. Are THEY required to be driven with a CDL or not?

 

[wb1895]

My whole problem was that the trooper said I was overweight. He said that my antique tag is only rated for 4000lbs. But he weighed me at 20500lbs. he subtracted the 4000, plus a leway of 500 lbs, which put me at 16000 "overweight" Now I looked up the cost of weight ratings in the NC motor vehicle handbook and found that NC charges $1.54 per 100 lbs for a weighted tag. So, even if I was overweight on a weighted tag then the fine would still only be $246.40!!!! Where in the heck did he come up with $630.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I smells a RAT!!!!!!!!!

 

[Heavysteven]

The GA DMV would not let me have an antque tag for that reason. Made me get a 26,000 lbs because they said I would be pulled over by the DOT and fined. Maybe I should keep the 26k tag.

Thanks for sharing your story

 

[DieselBob]

Now I looked up the cost of weight ratings in the NC motor vehicle handbook and found that NC charges $1.54 per 100 lbs for a weighted tag. So, even if I was overweight on a weighted tag then the fine would still only be $246.40!!!!

What you found is if you registered your truck for 16K GVW it would cost you $246.40 tag fee.

 

[tamangel]

what specific North Carolina VC section # did you get cited for? I see above that no statute was mentioned on the cite? How can that be? You have to be able to be in violation of some official section/code/etc..

Mike

 

[rmgill]

The GA DMV would not let me have an antque tag for that reason. Made me get a 26,000 lbs because they said I would be pulled over by the DOT and fined. Maybe I should keep the 26k tag.

Thanks for sharing your story

Which office? Did you explain your use/purpose of the vehicle? see 40-2-77. Ga law specifically allows up to 14,000 lbs vehicle weight. It does not use GVW as the term. So, a deuce qualifies.

There is no prohibition on miles, use, or cargo hauled. Unless you use it for a commercial purpose and then you MUST be tagged according to the IRP.

Moreover, I had a Hobby Antique tag given to me by a Commercial Tag office for a 5 ton. They refused to issue a PX tag because I was not commercial. (interesting huh?).

 

[PackRatWrecker]

In KS, an antique truck tag has a weight designation. My 49 Chevy 1 1/2ton is a 12M, because I registered it before the changed it. My 66 C60 has a 24M.

As of yet, I'm undecided on where to set the Deuce, mainly ince it isn't technically a 2 1/2ton anymore.

 

[rmgill]

Nother data point:

GS_20-37.16
§ 20‑37.16. Content of license; classifications and endorsements; fees.
(e) The requirements for a commercial drivers license do not apply to vehicles used for personal use such as recreational vehicles.


So Recreational vehicles are non commercial motor vehicles. Even though they may weigh as much as and be sized as Commercial motor vehicles.

So, if you don't need a tag for one, but they're as big, like one of these, then why does a Deuce need a tag if it's not used commercially? It's not the weight and size which makes it commercial, it's it's use.

 

[papabear]

True rmgill...that never made much sense to me...but it's how it is.
I can have a 40K pound RV and drive it right by the scale house in GA...and the MCCD will not give it a second look.
Let one of my carriers bypass a scale with a small car on the deck...way under 26K and watch the chase cars come out!

It's all about use...and whose version of what uses are allowed.

 

[roscoe]

The load only has to be covered if it is anything that can blow out of the truck. so, no it wasnt covered. The trooper told me that he just looked at my tag and "knew" that the truck weighed more than the tag allowed.

When I got the tag for the truck I told the lady at the DMV that the truck weighed 13.5 K and could haul 10K. She said that I would be fine and not to worry about it. So, I guess that the egg is on my face for not doing my own research.

I am still Pi$$ed as heck!!!!!!!

I was more wondering what made him decide you were doing something wrong. If your load was covered, I 'm just wondering if he would have singled you out. That being said, one of my trucks got stopped in IL, and I think it was because of the funky looking ("KMart M109" --Quote Dr. Greg) built back. HP said he didn't think it was military.

 

[porkysplace]

in michigan anything over 10k requires commercial plates . Antique plates no load to and from shows and weekends . Farm plates only cover farm products grown on own property. And log plates only cover logs if you haul firewood you have to have G.V.W tags . Annual inspection and medical card $500 a year for 24,000 k plates lowest they sell .Its all about money here in michigan

 

[airmech3839]

GA code for hobby tag....14k limit of truck weight.....does not specify as to curb or gross

GEORGIA CODE
Copyright 2009 by The State of Georgia
All rights reserved.
*** Current through the 2009 Regular Session ***
TITLE 40. MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
CHAPTER 2. REGISTRATION AND LICENSING OF MOTOR VEHICLES
ARTICLE 3. PRESTIGE LICENSE PLATES AND SPECIAL PLATES FOR CERTAIN PERSONS AND VEHICLES
O.C.G.A. § 40-2-77 (2009)
§ 40-2-77. Special license plates for antique or hobby or special interest vehicles

(a) As used in this Code section, the term "antique or hobby or special interest vehicle" means any motor vehicle which is over 25 years old or a motor vehicle which has been designed and manufactured to resemble an antique or historical vehicle and which is owned as a collector's item and for participation in club activities, exhibitions, tours, parades, and similar uses but which may be used for general transportation.

(b) Upon application, registration, and payment of an annual registration fee of $20.00, the commissioner shall issue a special license plate, as described in this Code section, for every antique or hobby or special interest vehicle within the state which is a private passenger car, truck weighing less than 14,000 pounds, or motorcycle.

(c) For antique vehicles or hobby or special interest vehicles, said license plates shall be of metal at least four inches wide and not less than seven inches in length and shall show in bold characters the words "Antique Vehicle" or "Hobby or Special Interest Vehicle," as appropriate, the full name or the abbreviation of the name of the state, distinctive numbers or letters or a combination thereof, and other distinctive markings as in the judgment of the commissioner will to the best advantage advertise, popularize, and otherwise promote the state.

(d) The commissioner shall make such rules and regulations as necessary to ascertain compliance with all state license laws relating to use and operation of a private passenger car, truck weighing less than 14,000 pounds, or motorcycle, as applicable, before issuing these plates in lieu of the regular Georgia license plate.

(e) Special plates issued under this Code section shall be transferred to another antique or hobby or special interest vehicle as provided by Code Section 40-2-80.

(f) Any vehicle for which an antique vehicle or hobby or special interest vehicle license plate has been issued pursuant to this Code section may be operated upon the roadways of this state in the same manner and under the same conditions as any vehicle bearing a regular Georgia license plate. No owner of such antique vehicle or hobby or special interest vehicle shall be required to obtain any special permits for its operation on the roads of this state.



So I am thinking I am good to haul or use my deuce as I want within reason! Right???

 

[DieselBob]

may be used for general transportation.

truck weighing less than 14,000 pounds

No owner of such antique vehicle or hobby or special interest vehicle shall be required to obtain any special permits for its operation on the roads of this state.



So I am thinking I am good to haul or use my deuce as I want within reason! Right???

Sounds like you could pretty much use it as you want as long as your not over 14K lbs.

 

[MyothersanM1]

Obviously the LEO you encountered is not a former military member. If an MV ever drove through my area, I would give him a personal escort. Where is the love??

A commercial enforcement officer from my town related a story to me about a time he towed a guy's deuce because he was driving "out of class (no CDL)". I thought "Dude that was straight NOT cool!" I mean jeez, might've as well kicked him square in the nv#s.

I just want you to know there are more LEO's that side with you. Problem these days is government agencies are looking to squeeze more revenue out of us. Your ticket is a prime example.

 

[MyothersanM1]

True rmgill...that never made much sense to me...but it's how it is.
I can have a 40K pound RV and drive it right by the scale house in GA...and the MCCD will not give it a second look.
Let one of my carriers bypass a scale with a small car on the deck...way under 26K and watch the chase cars come out!

It's all about use...and whose version of what uses are allowed.

Yeah. Haven't quite figured that one out either. Had a neighbor about ten years ago, a real doofus, who bought one of those land ship bus-size diesel pusher motor homes. On his maiden voyage , no driver's training, mind you, he took it up a mountain windy road. And, yep, you guessed it, turned to sharp and wrecked into a car.

 

[greenjeepster]

It all comes down to money. The RV Industry has the money to lobby so that they can sell RVs to anybody and tell them that their are no restrictions.

I am interested to hear how this turns out. I think you could get the ticket knocked down some at least.

 

[Heavysteven]

Thanks for the info. Now that I know the codes I am going back over to get an antque tag.

Tag office was Cobb County of Lower Roswell and Johnson Ferry