tatra 813 new owner

[tatra-kolos]

How did you go about finding yours in Europe if you dont mind me asking.

I purchased this vehicle 2 years ago from a guy in Denmark who had been performing a frame-off restoration, and the project got too big and took too long - My wife, daughter and I travelled to Denmark and visited with Lars and his wfe (wonderful people, wonderful country), and since then I have been planning on bringing the truck back to the States. My original contact with Lars was through the internet - he had a website documenting his project. I got lucky.


Thanks to "cranetruck" for posting the picture of the chassis. I believe that this picture is a cut-away CAD drawing of a late-model T-815 civilian chassis (Note the central airbag helper springs, and larger spacing between #2 and #3 axles, and no central winch). I have to say that all of the information and inspections I have made of various Tatras lead me to have a great deal of respect for their engineering. Too bad the economic idiocy of the communist leadership did not allow them to flourish to their potential!

I have seriously considered and investigated mounting a towed trailer (sans wheels and axles) on the tray bed, as the easiest and most economical method. In fact there are a couple on the market with rear slide-outs which would be very suitable. I would prefer units with double bunks at the front, so I could cut a passageway from the existing truck cab into the travel trailer portion (would need a flexible coupling - a-la some pasenger train connections). However I have serious reservations about the durability of a travel-trailer for off-road use. Their frames are built very lightly to insure easy towability, and I believe that mounted on the back of a Tatra, the off-road swaying motions will result in twisting and torquing which the travel trailer will not survive for long. I may still wind up doing this since all of the utilities (water, sewer, air-conditioning, power other than generator, etc.) have already been completed, and the economics are very attractive. I will wait to get the truck to Florida before committing. I just looked at the website of the guy with the T-815. He is undertaking a huge project there.

As far as adding the overdrive the drivetrain on a tatra is like nothing I have ever seen, all the drivelines ,axles etc are incased in a huge tube emersed with oil (for protection) so just adding gearboxes etc would be a huge challenge if not close to impossible.

I certainly agree that messing with the dirveline which is encased in the central chassis tube would be a very BAD idea. I am working from my photos of when my truck was under frame-off restoration. (I am attaching some below) My idea was to interpose a 2 speed overdrive/underdrive transmission in the shaft leading from the engine bell-housing to the input of the transmission/transfer case. I do not know if this will be possible or not, but the end result would effectively decrease engine rpm while increasing rpm of driveline. I would absolutely agree with you that the tire height could not be effectively increased. (However, I have seen pictures of T-815's which were being promoted to Middle Eastern militaries, with tires with dramatically increased widths - probably not necessary for our applications though) I am assuming that the maximum road speed is engine RPM limited due to optimization of the drivetrain for off-road. I may be overlooking some other limitation however. Since my intended use will be mostly off-road, the speed limitation will not be prohibitive, but higher road speeds would obviously be highly beneficial. I was not aware that the entire driveline was in an oil-bath. I had thought that the chassis tube was under positive air pressure. I wonder how they deal with friction and oil foaming from the rotation of all those shafts immersed in oil? Well, this is going to be a learning experience.

Thanks again.

 

[tatra813]

Wow thats going to be a mint conditions tatra for sure, the gearbox you are talking about adding may work in the driveline between the engine and tranny, but it is not very long and there is hardly any clearance between the driveline and the bottom of the cab, and also hardly any clearance between the driveline and chassis tube, so fitting a gearbox would be difficult unless you sacrificed some room in the cab to do it. Also when the truck is in the highest gear it has almost no power at all unless you are fully unloaded and on a totally flat highway with no hills, so making a higher gear setup , just from driving it I dont think will work. Anyway like I said you think you are driving fine and any kind of a hill and you fall flat on your face and have to shift. Anyway Im not trying to discourage you, if you can find a way to make it work I think it would be very nice. the gearbox would have to be pretty heafty to still have the truck stand up to its capacity rating.

Anyway nice Tatra, does he have it put back together yet?Maybe Lars has a contact for parts that will ship to the U.S. most of the contacts I have take forever to get back to me and can never come up with shipping prices and are hard to communicate with so a new parts contact overseas would be nice. I do know of a guy that has rebuilt tatra enignes for sale.

 

[tatra-kolos]

Wow thats going to be a mint conditions tatra for sure, the gearbox you are talking about adding may work in the driveline between the engine and tranny, but it is not very long and there is hardly any clearance between the driveline and the bottom of the cab, and also hardly any clearance between the driveline and chassis tube, so fitting a gearbox would be difficult unless you sacrificed some room in the cab to do it. Also when the truck is in the highest gear it has almost no power at all unless you are fully unloaded and on a totally flat highway with no hills, so making a higher gear setup , just from driving it I dont think will work anyway like I said you think you are driving fine and any kind of a hill and you fall flat on your face and have to shift. Anyway Im not trying to discourage you, if you can find a way to make it work I think it would be very nice. the gearbox would have to be pretty heafty to still have the truck stand up to its capacity rating.

Anyway nice Tatra, does he have it put back together yet?Maybe Lars has a contact for parts that will ship to the U.S. most of the contacts I have take forever to get back to me and can never come up with shipping prices and are hard to communicate with so a new parts contact overseas would be nice. I do know of a guy that has rebuilt tatra enignes for sale.

The truck is back together. However, Lars rushed the re-assembly once he decied to sell it. The chassis was fully restored (however it has since sat and weathered for a few years), but the cabin is all original, and somewhat rough (rust in spots, rubber seals deteriorated, etc.) So, I will have plenty to do when I get it to my workshop. I will probably stirp it and bead blast it immediately. I am intrigued by your spraying with Rhino-liner and the rubberized product you applied. I have just recently had my pickup bed sprayed with "Line-X", and am very impressed. The major drawback appears to be the cost, which is astronomical. I believe it would be very good for footwells and other exposed areas. I have a good deal of experience with yachts and sound-proofing materials for engine-rooms. Having that large air-cooled diesel right next to driver/passengers will be a challenge to insulate and sound-proof.

When I was in Denmark (3 years ago), there was a guy with a warehouse full of parts. I had intended to get back there long ago and buy necessary spares (injector pump, rubber parts, etc..) At that time he was looking for someone to buy him out, but I just did not have the time. I do not know what he is doing now, and will have to check my records for his name and contacts, but after the holidays I will try to look him up. At the time, he had an interesting engine - (brand new) - extremely large, Diesel from (he claimed) a Russian T-72 tank. It had compressed air injection for emergency starting, and was supposed to produce an ungodly amount of power. He said that someone in Sweden intended to install it into a T-813 for Truck Trials!

I have sent you a PM about the manuals.

I understand exactly what you mean about the clearance and having to sacrifice some room for a gearbox. However, if it currently requires all of the engine's power to maintain speed with current gearing, this would not help. I guess I will have experiment once I have the truck back in the States.

Do you mind me asking where you obtained your second T-813 and how much it cost you? There was a guy in CA (near San Francisco I believe), who had a T-813 which appeared to be in very good condition (there were a few web sites referring to it as "Tatrasaurus")

Purchasing a 2nd "donor" might be a great idea. I sent an e-mail to the guy converting the T-815, but have not yet received a reply. Do you have any idea how much he is looking for to hand-off his huge project? You referenced a guy with rebuilt engines - any idea how much?

You are certainly in a great part of the country to use your Tatra. Here in South Florida, we need to drive a long way to get to any terrain features.

It is wonderful to find a group of people who don't look at you like you're crazy, when you describe an ex-Soviet Bloc military vehicle named "Colossus" (KOLOS), which you intend to drive on the street. I only regret that mine doesn't have the snowplow/bulldozer blade attachment. My daughter wants me to drive her to school in it!

 

[tatra813]

I love the truck like you do, most people like it but just dont understand why I would buy a truck like that, now I tell people if you have to ask why, then you wouldnt understand.

Anyway the rhino lining is very nice and it helps alot with the sound with the engine, you can also put on the dynamat product which helps with the noise, but I think the rhino lining is just as good, I had the engine hump done, because you can remove it and take it to the place without driving the truck there and I think it cost me about $300. The Durabac rubberized coating I rolled on is just as good and as thick, trust me I am picking and was very impressed, its about $100 a gallon if I remember correctly and it goes a long way, I definitily recommend it. The guy I who has the rebuilt engine is in Europe and Ithink he wanted $3000 for a engine, dont get

me wrong about the engine I do love it and the v-12 aircooled motor has a great reputation for reliability its just not the kind of power I expected, but you learn to love it. I have been trying to find a bulldozer attachment to add to one of my Tatras also I think that would be awsome.

The guy in california you refer to is James I will pm you back and give you my phone number and I will give you all the Tatra info I have including parts suppliers and other owners in the u.s. and there phone numbers.

I do know where there is a rough condition 813 in the states you can get for a great price for a parts truck.

As far as converting things, my personal opinion is to keep it mechanicaly stock as possible, just to avoid problems my only other worry is to be in the middle of nowhere and have a breakdown, with parts taking months to come from overseas this is the main reason I got my second tatra when the first one breaks down I dont like waiting for parts before I can drive it again, so I needed a backup. Yea I know nobody understands me. Also if I get it stuck and there is nothing to winch off of I need a second tatra to pull me out l.o.l. thats what I told my wife anyway.
From what I have heard most of the guys in the truck trials just use stock engines, with maybe bigger injectors so I think it is best to make the stock setup work. I live within a 1/8 of a mile of thousands of acres of mountain terrain to play in so it works out great for me although I havnt done tons of offroading yet, I plan on setting my first tatra up as a truck trials type with full roll cage, etc and I wil relocate the fuel tanks into the back of the bed etc. You will notice if you watch the truck trial vids on youtube, once the guys start up a steep hill they never shift and if they need to they have to stop on the hill shift and then continue, that will give you an idea of how it drives.

To buy a Tatra and bring it over from Europe , it is hard to get a nice rust free one for less than about 35 thousand dollars and with the exchange rate its getting more expensive. The guy I got my second tatra from bought 3 tatras until he got one he liked the first 2 were badly rusted and had problems and he was finaly satisfied with the third one which is the one I know have, so be happy you found a good one. When you call me I will give you his number I think he will have shipping info for you also. I think you should work on getting it over to the states.

Anyway its good to talk to someone else who is obsessed with these things!

Its hard to find people who speak english with tatras and hard to get info I spend hundreds of hours searching the web and calling around so I have a pretty good info base to share, and always looking for more info and contacts.

 

[tatra813]

tatra-kolos

As far as putting a trailer on the back I still think you would be time and money ahead to put a trailer on the back, one thing I noticed is the suspention on the tatra is AWSOME even unloaded its a very smooth ride. If you get a aluminum framed unit with fiberglass sides they are pretty ridgid even if you had to cut into the walls and beef it up I think you would be better off. I just know I have had so many projects over the years and projects like that take so much time and effort to do it how you imagine it in your mind and at the end they are very seldom worth all the effort and time (having the vehicle out of commission). Anyway just my thoughts. I finally was told my wife was a project widow because I was always working on projects. Anyway I try think of my projects differently now.
you may even consider putting in a bulkhead so to speak in the middle of the trailer to make it more ridgid, or maybe even if it has a divider wall rip it out and weld up a durable frame to help out with the flexing, I dont think it will flex as much as you think. After driving the tatra the suspention is so great and it moves very slowly I dont think it will be a issue, you wont get the whiping effect on the trailer like you think you would when you hit holes, bumps etc.

 

[cranetruck]

If it was me, I'd mount a knuckleboom and have a military type shelter, which could be lifted on and off as needed, perhaps with a smaller module for general cargo.. This way the truck could be used while work progressed on the shelter. The truck would then have a flat bed and the crane, which only occupies 2 ft of frame space. For the well to do, several different size shelters (campers) could be prepared and used depending on the trip.
My 6,000 mile trip in the deuce last year, saw a lot of use of the crane, which comes in handy in emergencies as well, makes fixing a blown tire a simple one man job.

 

[tatra-kolos]

If it was me, I'd mount a knuckleboom and have a military type shelter, which could be lifted on and off as needed, perhaps with a smaller module for general cargo.. This way the truck could be used while work progressed on the shelter. The truck would then have a flat bed and the crane, which only occupies 2 ft of frame space. For the well to do, several different size shelters (campers) could be prepared and used depending on the trip.
My 6,000 mile trip in the deuce last year, saw a lot of use of the crane, which comes in handy in emergencies as well, makes fixing a blown tire a simple one man job.

I agree that a knuckle-boom crane (HIAB style) would be a very useful tool, particularly given the weight of spare wheel assemblies. I have seen estimates of weight ranging up to 850 lbs for a spare wheel assembly (hard to believe!). Additionally, a knuckleboom crane would be great for loading cargo on roof top (spare fuel drums, dirt-bikes, etc.). I have even gone so far as to consider a very small 4x4 to be carried as emergency transportation (a "dinghy"). If I could find a good one, a "Haflinger" would be a good choice even though it is gasoline powered. (I imagine a conversion to a modern small diesel might not be too difficult.) A knuckleboom could probably lift one of these onto the top of the cab.

My only problem with a knuckelboom is mounting it between the existing 7 pasenger cab and the living quarters. Having travelled extensively with motorhomes, I have decided that a passageway between the cab and the living quarters which can be traversed while the vehicle is in motion is a necessity. This is complicated by the requirement to run the exhaust up to roof-level to insure deep-water fording ability, and locations for spare wheels and fuel tanks. (All of the Truck-Trial guys have moved the fuel tanks up out of harm's way, and since I will probably need to install some form of hydraulic ladder/steps between axles #2 and #3 anyway, I am going to have to find space for a large amount of diesel.

Some of the newer HIABs appear to be quite compact, and if I can find one which will retract into about 4' in width, then I could offset the passageway and exhausts to allow space to mount one near the midpoint of the vehicle. Otherwise, I will have to mount it to the front bumper, or the rear, and in such case, it would not be able to reach all axle locations for tire changing, etc. Alternatively, I could mount a boat-style davit on an 8" standpipe, with an hydrualic ram to raise it from stored position (horizontal along the roof). This would take up a lot less space, but would not be nearly as useful as a knuckleboom.

If I wind up installing a 20' sea-freight container as living accomodations, I will certainly design it to be removable and self-contained, but I doubt that a reasonably sized knuckleboom would be able to lift and maneuver such a container. However, by mounting a hydraulic jack/ram on each corner, I could arrange to lift it slightly and drive out from under the container. (ala- some pickup truck campers, and the storage box services which bring a container to your location and maneuver it with a detachable hydraulic framework.)

 

[cranetruck]

Hmmm...good points, however, the crane boom does not have to be stored in "figure 4" position, but may be extended over the container/camper for plenty of space for access on the sides of the crane pedestal....

 

[tatra813]

I would just get a couple 4x4 quads for back-up. I have a polaris mv-7 quad the military version and it can carry 3 adults easily if need be, and it takes up little space and it already has lifting lugs on it (actually made for helicopter drop offs). You arnt going to get too extreme offroad with all the "top heavy" weight. i.e.shiping containter, so maybe a smaller removable load would be better. Ive read articles about the truck trials guys even having to go back and redesign there roll cages because it made them too top heavy, (off course they are going really extreme, but you dont want to be at a disadvantage either) Ideally for maximum offroad ability maybe a pop-up camper would be best, then you would have space for the quad and crane. The tires on the wheel is very heavy but I have changed one by myself, but that didnt include lifting it, that was pulling it off and putting it back on. I used blocks to help position it. lifting it would take 4 guys. I suspect using a comelong up a board would get it in the back of the cab in a pinch.

Crane truck what would a crane like you are talking about cost, are you talking about a military version or is that something that is readily available? used market maybe That would be very hand as long as it could lift at least 1200 pounds.

 

[cranetruck]

My HIAB can lift 8,000 lb from just off the side of the bed to 1,500 lb 25 ft out. The avatar shows an approx 4,000 lb lift (xm757 rears).
They go for $3,000 to $10,000 depending on where you happen to find one, mine is ex-military, but there are plenty of used commercial ones around.

 

[tatra813]

My HIAB can lift 8,000 lb from just off the side of the bed to 1,500 lb 25 ft out. The avatar shows an approx 4,000 lb lift (xm757 rears).
They go for $3,000 to $10,000 depending on where you happen to find one, mine is ex-military, but there are plenty of used commercial ones around.

I may have to think about getting one of those. Is the crane all self contained as far as hydraulics? is the pump electric?

 

[RomanK]

Hi Tatra Soldiers!

I'm Russian engineer, from Canada, the owner of the company that specializing in design and production of Search & Rescue hovercrafts.

I guess in spring-summer to bring into Canada couple of equal 813 or 815 8x8(backup of spares) Tatras, not only for fun and pleasure but first of all as a transport to deliver my hovercrafts to the off-road places of destination.

I've collected some information about different Tatra models, and found out, that my choice will be around T-815VVN 8х8, or T-813VN 8x8, or 813/815 chassis for AM-50, PMS, etc...

Because my crafts are 20' (6.10м) long x 8.5'(2.50m) wide, only Tatra T-813/815 8x8 2-door version is acceptable for me.

Now, I have some questions about difference of 813 and 815 trucks. For the first look I've mentioned different distance between middle axles of 813 and 815, absence of winch on 815. Engines 310 hp on 815 / 250hp on 813. What else?

 

[RenatoPietsch]

Tatra the 813 is in the area better, due to the small distance of the axles too each other. With 815 this distance is larger.

 

[RomanK]

Interesting source of Tatra 815 spare parts http://cz-tatra.en.alibaba.com/product/50081403/200685031/Tatra_Truck_Parts/Engine_assembly.html

Minimum order - 1 Piece!

enjoy!

 

[cranetruck]

Welcome to the site RomanK! Love the increase in variety of vehicles, are you in Canada permanently?

Tatra813, the crane is generally speaking self contained, it has hydraulic outriggers. It does need a 20 gallon hydraulic fluid tank and the pump is driven from the PTO of the host vehicle. Marine versions of the crane feature electrically powered pumps, but lack the outriggers. Weight of my particular model is about 3,800 lb installed.
Note: There may be a problem with the outriggers interfering witht the 2nd axle wheels for the model shown below.

 

[RomanK]

Hi Tatra Soldiers !

Yes I'm living in Canada more than 7 years. Who could explain me the difference of engines
TATRA 930-3 and TATRA 930-17, that were installed on T-813.

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Tatra the 813 is in the area better, due to the small distance of the axles too each other. With 815 this distance is larger.
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Now look here, what I have in my pocket

 

[cranetruck]

What model year are these?

 

[tatra813]

very nice, do you have a source for those tires?

 

[RomanK]

About tires - absolutely no idea. I've took those pictures from one of the euro forums.

 

[RomanK]

Soldiers! I'm still surfing inet for the information about Tatra engines

T3-930-51
T3-930-50

TATRA 930-3
TATRA 930-17