welldigger
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Technical Assistance needed for non-starting Deuce (76 degreess outside)
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gimpyrobb
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the plunger should move about a 1/4 inch. If it doesn't move, you can tap it down lightly and see if that works. If it goes up and sticks again, you probably lost the button off the bottom, and need to pull the head.
goldneagle
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You know this is getting beyond my comfort zone as far as mechanical work. I am comfortable taking the bolt out and checking the plunger. I might need more expert help if it requires digging into the IP. (I don't want to pull thinga apart and have parts falling into the dirt where I cannot find them again.)
welldigger
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We have covered removing the hydraulic head many times. Not hard to do just takes attention to details on preparation, removal and reinstall.
Removing the center bolt and checking the plunger is the next step and will tell you if you even need to remove the HH.
Removing the center bolt and checking the plunger is the next step and will tell you if you even need to remove the HH.
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opcorn:It is always educational to follow a troubleshooting thread
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Yeah, what he said. In my case I just open the passenger side door and stand on the step and spray while cranking the motor. Crank first and while it is cranking then spray.
Spray then walk around and push the start button may give you an experience you didn't want, replacing the motor being the worst....
goldneagle
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I had my neighbor help me yesterday -so he sprayed once I started cranking.
I will try to test the plunger on the HH when it stops raining AGAIN! It might be Thursday before we get a break in the weather. I hope I don't have to get into the HH. May need to import a SteelSoldiers member to tackle that for $$ and beer.
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For a fee I'm sure Gimpy is available.
goldneagle
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Kinda of a long trip for Gimpy. Would love to have Gimpy work on some of my MVs. I might even learn something. I was hoping for someone local so the travel expense would not kill me.
zout
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Been reading this thread. Gotta tell ya GE - you can do this. Get some clean towels - look at the tools needed for the job and slowly tackle it - I have done Dinger65's a couple three times now because his truck just sits.
Its not simple but dang near close to it - once you get past the couple first steps you'll know when to stop - but its not reason to not try to tackle it - its a learning curve.
Those above have given the steps to take to at least check it out - go for it.
Next thing we wanna hear is that it is purring like a kitten (kittens only purr when they get stuck in your engine fan firing up the truck BTW)
Its not simple but dang near close to it - once you get past the couple first steps you'll know when to stop - but its not reason to not try to tackle it - its a learning curve.
Those above have given the steps to take to at least check it out - go for it.
Next thing we wanna hear is that it is purring like a kitten (kittens only purr when they get stuck in your engine fan firing up the truck BTW)
goldneagle
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Thank you for your confidence in my mechanical skills. I keep thinking back a few years ago when John Lambert tried to repair/replace an IP in his Deuce. Had a couple of mechanics trying to install a new IP. Ended up installing it off-timing and that resulted in all kinds of headaches. I know a year later he still did not have the truck running!
When I talk to Welldigger last night he mentioned that in order to remove the HH I had to align the gears in the IP perfectly before and after repairing the HH. Any misalignment and the IP will not work.
Just to give you a bit of personal background: I did not do mechanical work on my vehicles when I was growing up. All I knew to do was oil change and replacing the spark plugs and wires. Any real mechanical work was done by mechanics. Therefore some of the work required on these MV's is pushing my comfort zone.
It sure is! I learn something every time. I hope my brain doesn't explode.
gimpyrobb
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GE, look at it this way. There are steps 1-10 to see what is wrong. We can walk you through starting at 1 and you can stop at any point. Right now, we are asking you to check things that CAN NOT do any damage, they are only trouble shooting. If you check the plunger and want to stop after that, I understand.
What you will need to do now is:
1, pull the center plug/bolt(whatever you want to call it).
2, put a wooden/plastic dowel in there and have someone turn the motor over while you put light pressure on the dowel.
3, if it doesn't move, tap it lightly to free it up.
4 if it moves up and down about a quarter inch, put plug back in and see if she starts.
5 try ether, a minor whiff(sometimes thats all thats needed).
6 (still doesn't start?) time to pull head. If you want to stop here so be it.
I understand its intimidating, but as of right now, you can consider the truck broke, you will not hurt it anymore than it already is.
If its more than you can handle so be it. I do not blame you for being strong enough to admit it. Sometimes its best to let others step in.
What you will need to do now is:
1, pull the center plug/bolt(whatever you want to call it).
2, put a wooden/plastic dowel in there and have someone turn the motor over while you put light pressure on the dowel.
3, if it doesn't move, tap it lightly to free it up.
4 if it moves up and down about a quarter inch, put plug back in and see if she starts.
5 try ether, a minor whiff(sometimes thats all thats needed).
6 (still doesn't start?) time to pull head. If you want to stop here so be it.
I understand its intimidating, but as of right now, you can consider the truck broke, you will not hurt it anymore than it already is.
If its more than you can handle so be it. I do not blame you for being strong enough to admit it. Sometimes its best to let others step in.
goldneagle
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You have been great at giving clear instructions as well as excellent photos. I will test out the plunger movement as soon as weather permits. I will keep you guys updated on the progress.
goldneagle
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The weather has not been cooperating for opening the bolt on the HH. I did dig up the old IP I had and did a practice run. I got the bolt remover and was able to see what was in the hole. I also attempted to take the HH off. I learn one thing. If you don't have the gear set right the HH will not come off. When I finally go the HH off I noticed the little button and retainer clip had come off the HH and were laying in the IP. So now I know what it looks like internally. (And I have spare parts if needed)
I never figured out where the mark was for aligning the HH gear in order to pull the HH. Keep in mind that this is on the OLD IP (Core) not the one installed on my M109A2. Better to mess up on this one than the one on my truck.
I never figured out where the mark was for aligning the HH gear in order to pull the HH. Keep in mind that this is on the OLD IP (Core) not the one installed on my M109A2. Better to mess up on this one than the one on my truck.
welldigger
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The good news is now you know how to pull the head. Same process on the truck. Don't forget to change the o rings if you pull the hh off the truck.
To pull the HH off, you have to set the timing mark on the crankshaft, set the mark under the rectangle inspection cover on the IP and also set the red tooth gear inside the fuel shutoff.
That is what I was referring to in the attention to detail in the preparation.
Start reading paragraph K on page 39. It is an older LDS manual but has pictures on what to look for. It is the easiest to understand
View attachment LDS 465 Troubleshooting.pdf
When you get everything lined up you have to remove the two screws that hold the fuel control rod in place and then remove the control rod. You must not loose the pin on the end of the rod. If you do Game Over until you get a replacement.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?110475-Fuel-cutoff-issue
Then the 4 nuts are removed and then the HH should slide up/out.
Install is the reverse. The pin on the end of the rod has to engage the groove in the plunger sleeve. If not the engine will either not start or be a runaway.
This is a sideview cutaway of the HH
Here is a link for Welldigger's o-rings. Might as well replace them while if you take the HH off.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?119626-Hydraulic-Head-o-ring-kit-for-multifuel-engine
That is what I was referring to in the attention to detail in the preparation.
Start reading paragraph K on page 39. It is an older LDS manual but has pictures on what to look for. It is the easiest to understand
View attachment LDS 465 Troubleshooting.pdf
When you get everything lined up you have to remove the two screws that hold the fuel control rod in place and then remove the control rod. You must not loose the pin on the end of the rod. If you do Game Over until you get a replacement.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?110475-Fuel-cutoff-issue
Then the 4 nuts are removed and then the HH should slide up/out.
Install is the reverse. The pin on the end of the rod has to engage the groove in the plunger sleeve. If not the engine will either not start or be a runaway.
This is a sideview cutaway of the HH
Here is a link for Welldigger's o-rings. Might as well replace them while if you take the HH off.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?119626-Hydraulic-Head-o-ring-kit-for-multifuel-engine
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welldigger
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When pulling the HH you just need to line up the red tooth with the pointer. The other timing marks don't matter in this situation.