winch problems

[Scar59]

Keep us updated please, I just got a M925. It' not home yet but will be soon.
JC

 

[builderboy]

didn't get a chance to work on it today... hopefully very soon though !!

 

[builderboy]

Ok !! got the pump spinning, levers working and switching valve... well switching!!! Now my problem is that the have hydro fluid to the front of the truck... but the pump attached to the winch itself isn't working for some reason. I took the four bolts out that hold the pump to the winch and can't get the pump to split apart from the winch. Will go back out today to continue to get this truck ready for the veterans day parade. Oh... I also got the spool to unwind. Will measure how much cable I have today also!!

 

[73m819]

The tm calls for 200' for non-wreckers

 

[tobyS]

At first I wondered if you have the transmission gears for the PTO. Some don't. Until you reported getting the PTO going, my thought was that they installed a PTO but on a tranny that was NOT equipped with drive gears. Then you say it's spinning, so gears must be there.

These are open-centered systems (gear pump and motor), meaning fluid will flow any time the pump turns. The neutral valve position has a bypass that lets fluid go pressure to tank (thus open center). Your winch is a hydraulic motor that is basically a pump in reverse. If there is fluid flow, it must turn the gears and shaft. Thus if your getting no turning of the winch motor and your sure you have fluid moving into the pump from the tank, there would seem to be an issue with the valve shifting to block the pressure line that goes to tank. If it has not been worked for a very long time, it may be stuck, rusted or have debris in it.

Therefore I would suggest removing and cleaning the valve spools and housing. It's best to have it out so you can be careful to get everything clean and operating, but might be done in the truck. Of course consult the TM's.

I need to adjust the valve cable on my 925. I'm getting very fast out-feed and a crawl speed coming in. Since your operating by hand, you should feel the valve shifting and determine if it is going to full stroke (in-feed or out-feed), with your cable cab control.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[builderboy]

Ok.. I disconnected the hoses at the motor by the front of the truck. which is connected to the winch itself. I then started the truck engaged the pto and fluid was coming out of one side the two hoses. I assumed that meant I was getting fluid flow from the valve spool? Could it be I'm not getting enought pressure to turn the winch? I'm going to try and take the hydrualic motor off the winch today and see if it's stuck? Or should I go ahead and take the valve spool apart and clean it also??

thanks for all the help !!!

 

[tobyS]

Hydraulics have to be clean to work properly, so I will never discourage you from removing and cleaning.

You say the fluid flowed from one line. Did it do that when the valve was pulled in or out or did it do it with no control lever shift on your part, but the PTO engaged? If it did with no input by you, it was draining from your tank and probably not under pressure (which it should be if you were pulling/pushing the lever).

If you got flow out, but not noticeably under pressure, the problem is likely the valve. Pulling the lever should make it squirt under high pressure (drenching you in the process)(wear safety goggles). Seems pressure would break a motor free, so I'd confirm I had pressure first. You might go to the hardware/farm store and get a tee and hydraulic gauge for checking pressure.

Of course TM research is advised.

 

[tobyS]

If you take the cable loose at all and don't have it rewinding under it's own power, plan on removing the cable entirely. OR DON'T reel it out at all... as even with 2 people, it is hard to get aligned with no overlaps as it is reeled back in. You will have to remove it all and take the end out of the clamp to do your parade if the winch is not working and you unwind even a few feet. I did that and had to end up cutting a new end to get it into the clamp. Without help, it's a bear.

 

[M925]

I thought my winch was broken......

Doghead set me straight on the TM......I thought I had read it right.

The way you shift and then engage the PTO is very important because it will look like the PTO is engaged and it's not. Shift, engage, shift.

If you can pull the PTO lever back and hear a grinding, it's not engaged. When you have it right the lever will rest peaceably all the way back.

Also the clutch lever near the drum needs to be correct...you may have to spin the drum....till the drum locks and the lever comes the furthest towards you.

Make sure the drum lock is not locked as well, that's kinda important.

Winch operations are best with two people.

I miss greasing my cable....maybe next year.

 

[builderboy]

I cracked the lines when I did my pressure test. I know enough to know to not stand in the way of a hydro hose when under pressure. It has pressure to the motor. Took the motor off and something appears to be wrong. I think something is lodged in the head of the motor. When I take the splinned shaft out and insert it into the winch I can spin it with some help of pliers.

Back to the head of the motor. where the fluid enters. I took all of the appart and there are some steal cylinders with a star looking deal. They are tigher than I believe they should be. Everything else looks great.. and moves. I emailed the hyrdo motor company. Maybe they might be some help.

Anyone know the TM' numbers for tearing the motor apart on the winch?? I looked again last night and didn't find anything.


Thanks

 

[HASSON1911]

Subscribeed, got my winch coming on mon for install!

 

[tobyS]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply you would not get out of the way of high pressure oil, but it is real easy to get sprayed on only slightly opened fittings.

I don't have the TM but if you go to wiki under hydraulic pumps ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_pump ) and look at gearotor, you will see the basic motion and where the surfaces must slide freely. If they don't, you'll need to find out why. At least my 925 winch motor appears to be a gearotor and that is the "star" you refer to.

 

[builderboy]

I do believe my gearotor is stuck!!! LOL will find out more in the evenings this week. Thanks for all the help tobyS

 

[tobyS]

Your welcome. Have some medium to fine emery cloth handy and you'll probably be fine. These are very forgiving motors/pumps so a little rust pitting won't matter too much as long as you get sliding parts freed up. Good luck.

 

[builderboy]

That's the crazy thing... nothing is rusty on the inside of the pump... it just seems lodged in there awful tight.... very very tight actually.

 

[tobyS]

Apparently you have found your problem. You're going to have to get it apart. If you have to rap on it, use wood or a brass punch so not to distort the metal. Soak it in diesel fuel for a while prior to trying to beat it apart (or some good solvent). The winch must have been sitting for a long time.

 

[builderboy]

ok tobyS... I took the gearotor apart today.. not on speck of rust. Very Very tight. used a brass drift to take it apart... had to use it to put everything back together too. Reinstalled pump and all the parts. only had time to do a test on the pump. Turned it on with the hose's disconnected from the pump.... hydro fluid everywhere!!! And I had my safety glasses on.

so as it sets plenty of hydro fluid coming from the swithing valve. PTO is working. And lots of fluid to the motor on the winch. winch spins with the help of pliers. Now I need to hook up the hose's and see if anything works this time.

This is a very dumb statment. But... I can't the clutch lever on the winch to move to the "out" position? It's in the "in" position. I thought by now I would have been able to move it back and forth?

Any ideas??

Thanks again everyone for helping out this carpenter.. turned MV owner.!!

 

[tobyS]

The parts on that motor should slide together easily and require no force at all...none. Something is wrong if the parts do not fit and rotate freely by hand. Leaving the star and the mating rotation part (internal gear) out but with the shaft installed, does the shaft turn free? When apart, did you sand/polish mating surfaces lightly with fine emery cloth (and clean completely)? Go one part at a time, putting it together and find whatever is binding.

Personally, when I put a pump or motor back together, I coat these surfaces with white lithium grease, but not without them rotating freely first. Others may just use oil.

Obviously you proved there is pressure, so the valve and pump are working. Seems your focus is narrowed to the motor.

On the drum lever, have a friend rotate the winch drum as you put the handle into the engaged position. Maybe a 1/3 turn of the winch drum will get it to align, where it will engage (this is not a clutch, it is a gear that must mate). If the motor was turning... this engagement would make a difference, but you said you had pulled the motor and it was not rotating.

 

[builderboy]

I appears to me after taking the motor apart and putting it back together that perhaps it has never ran? I can't see but maybe a couple of very small wear marks. I also had to (using my brass drift of course) tap the parts back together that make the gearotor ( star and seven cylinders that all fit into a housing ( sorry don't know that name yet) still can't turn the gearotor by hand. I insterted the splinned shaft into the gearotor... stuck like chuck.. Nothing would spin.

And on the drum... the lever says clutch.. it currently is pushed to the side with an arrow saying "in" I can't get the lever to move to the "out" side.... which at least by my thinking in this case is good. Since I want it "in"

 

[73m819]

There is a load on the drum clutch, move the winch drive back and forth to remove the load, check and make sure the drum lock is not engaged with the drum clutch engaged, this also will bind things up when turning by hand and break things when turned with power.