winch problems

[builderboy]

I have spun the drum this way and that... all while trying to move the drum cluth lever. Nothing. The drum free spins it seems like no matter what I do. and the drum lock is NOT engaged. I will hook the hoses up later this afternoon when the rain stops and my paper work is all complete.

Builderboy

 

[73m819]

Take a look at the back side of the clutch lever, there is a ball detent in the lever, sometimes the lever moves further then the detent, allowing the ball to come out and get hung up so the lever can not disengauge, if the lever goes far enough past detent, the ball drops out and the spring either drops out or also again hangs up the clutch lever.

 

[builderboy]

I'm stumped.... everything says the gearotor is to tight ... can't spin it with pliers... let alone by hand. I should be able to spin it by hand... Correct???
Stumped in Kansas... with veterans day fast approaching..

 

[tobyS]

Yes, it must move by hand. But perhaps some other SS member can confirm this. I've never put one together as tight as you state.

Have you taken emery cloth to the housing inside, shaft and gearotor? Work on them one at a time until free, then on the assembly. If you put the parts in a lathe and use emery...be careful to only make them fit and don't take too much off (unlikely given that they are so tight).

Your parade will never notice the winch motor is missing but you may want plugs for the hydraulic lines.

 

[builderboy]

ok... went and got parts today .... thank you Glenn for even having them... took yet another gearotor apart and it was to hard to spin by hand... but I do know.. or atleast i feel like it. I HAVE THE PARTS TO MAKE THIS WORK!!! Stay tuned... must be working in the next couple of days.

 

[cx65083]

I'm not trying to hi-jack the tread here, but tobyS said something that got me worried here and I'd like to ask a quick question. toby S stated:

At first I wondered if you have the transmission gears for the PTO. Some don't. Until you reported getting the PTO going, my thought was that they installed a PTO but on a tranny that was NOT equipped with drive gears....

Is this true of the older winch trucks too? I have a 71 M813a1. I just purchased a complete winch kit off a parts truck in hopes of making mine a W/Winch instead of a WO/Winch truck. (Thanks 98hd!) Is there a possibility I don't even have the gears in my tranny to run the PTO? or is this just an option on the auto's? Do I just pull off the PTO cover plate there and everything should be good to go?
A little reassurance before I head to bed to night will save me a restless night. Thanks!

 

[tobyS]

Sorry, I can't tell you cx about an M813, but it is true of the Allison automatics. Not all have the gear. My guess is the PTO is different but an M813 owner will have to answer. I'll bet there is a thread about it (if you can find it). Good luck.

 

[doghead]

I've never seen that. I would not worry about it.

 

[tobyS]

Doghead, are you saying the PTO's that fit an M813 are the same as the 5 ton w/Allison? That would surprise me!

 

[73m819]

No different

 

[tobyS]

Thanks 73m819. I just looked at the 5 speed Spicer and there does appear to be the same 6 lug cover plate on both sides of the tranny. So in reverse, if I find a PTO on a Spicer 5 speed, I can expect it to fit and work on the Allison auto (with internal gears aligning)? That may open a few possibilities for finding a used PTO for my 923 at a local truck bone-yard.

 

[73m819]

Sorry, I was not clear, the 39/809 series pto ARE different then the 939 5ts, I checked the p/n, they 100% different

 

[doghead]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear on my reply.

The 939 series Pto is not compatible(interchangeable) with the M809 series trucks.

I was referring to never seeing a transmission without the gear installed to drive a PTO.

Hope that clears up my posting.

 

[Csm Davis]

Toby have you seen a Military Allison that did not have the gear or are you just talking about all of them? I know that you are right about the civilian ones but I talked to the transmission guy at RSMS and he and I both believe that all of the 939 automatic transmissions were ordered with the gears.

 

[tobyS]

Back when I posted that I was looking for a PTO for the Allison in my 923 I was cautioned first on SS then by the engineer at Muncie Gear that some tranny's do not have the gear. They did not say all military had the gear, but made it sound quite possible that a military might not have it.

So no, I have not personally seen this, just been made aware that it is a possibility. Muncie told me of a way of confirming that one is there and in the correct position but I have not located the note. You may be right about all military having them but if one is spending $550 on a new PTO, it may be worth a check to confirm.

Jeff, do you work with gasification?

 

[aheilmann68]

Was there ever any closure to this issue? If so could you respond with the information. This is a real good thread on the winches and hydraulic systems but its a cliff hanger. Thanks

 

[tobyS]

Sorry aheilmann68, I don't have any more info. But if your thinking about your 923 that was a 925, I bet it does have the gear. Taking the plate off and visually checking would be my suggestion. I think you can get to it from the cab floor through the access hole.

 

[Csm Davis]

Okay so let's try this. I have never and the shop guys at the base have never run into a transmission that did not have the gear to run a pto on the Spicer or Allison transmissions. Now if anyone has seen this gear missing in a transmission on a military truck please post up and give details. I personally think that the talk that it may be missing is misinformation.

 

[aheilmann68]

Mounted a 270 model chelsea today. Other than being a royal pita its in. The chelsea manula lists the Allison trans as a compatible model with no specific notes to look.

I was implying more of why the op's motor didnt work or what other isses he found