Wireless AutoStart with Remote Parameter Monitoring

[Triple Jim]

ok how did you figure that out? ...........ah the power of google.....

Actually QRZ.

73 de AA3DN

 

[Guyfang]

Well actually, your KB3BF says it all!

 

[kb3bf]

Lol

 

[khamill2000]

I don't know... an Extra class amateur might not take too long to get it done.

Don't be too sure about that. I don't understand any part of this discussion.

AD0LK

 

[Triple Jim]

It seems there's a bunch of us here.

 

[khamill2000]

Everybody needs a hobby... or 6.

 

[kb3bf]

You will be surprised where hams may be lurking.
Tapping 73 or CQ may get an occasional head turning.

But when "things go south", ... .... .. _ is even better. In code it sounds nicer than phonetics (just like the greeting "73").
That's what I blurped out in "dits and dah" when some kumquat sergeant barked out punishing orders during training back when.
Darn if he didn't know the code! He was a ham.
In army training, really? .....But then, DOD-MARS was a big thing.

 

[kb3bf]

K1 had the potential of being a good relay with 150 Amp contacts and a rugged package, but it is plagued with several poor design features, the worst one is it doesn't seal well and can collect moisture/water.

I understand K1 is used in several generators, but depending where it is mounted it may have different failure rates, however my other K1 was pristine when I opened it (I may have ruined the seal just by inspecting the inside).

I am still trying to figure out how and why the bad one leaked in the first place since it has two rubber seals. I noticed that whatever sealant they used on the gaskets it was dry and flaky, there was too little of it and there were gaps where none was applied.

When reassembled I will test K1 for how good it seals, and will drill two weep holes at the base just in case it fails again. Maybe the contacts get too warm during high current loads and this has an impact on how well the rubber gasket seals.

The cheap black plastic bridge connected to the solenoid is weak and mine broke when I separated it from the solenoid shaft (too thin), and while i glued it together I am having to machine one using a more durable material.

It is important to adjust the 3 contacts so that the whole assembly does not rock sideways when it is pulled in, meaning all contacts should meet uniformly . Although there are 3 springs to compensate, the center contactor must be adjusted property or it throws off the other two.

There is no way I would consider buying a used one without seeing what it looks like inside.

If anybody has their own K1 experience, I am interested in hearing from you before I remount it in the second MEP.

PS. Oops, I just realized that for these images I screwed up and mounted the 3 springs below the contacts; they belong above for the relay to work.

 

[Guyfang]

In 1984, in my unit, (HAWK, Air Defence) we had 2 Hams. All COMMO guys. We had AM, FM and UHF gear up the kazoo in the unit. We were stationed on top of a nice sized hill. Now what do you think we might do to amuse ourselves at night on 24 hour duty? We ran some wire around the missile site, to make long wire antennas. And talked with the world. This did NOT please the BUNDESPOST, (B.P.). Besides delivering mail, the B.P. is like our FCC. It did not take them long to triangulate where we were sending from. But, sadly for them, gaining entrance to the site was not easy. Our long wire antennas looked liked like all the rest of the 52 million miles of commo wire strung all over the site. So, while many fingers were pointed, no one could be brought to accountability. We continued to talk with the world, until a complaint was filed with 32nd AADCOM, our major unit command. Threats of sending in CID and so forth stopped the whole show. I had a good time, learned a lot of neat things and began my self education in electrical repairs more complicated than checking for continuity.

One of our Hams was a French guy, a French school trained Electrical Engineer working as a HAWK radar mechanic. He was my mentor. My first hands on project was a power supply. It was spectacular when it caught fire and burned up the table and surroundings. Lesson learned? fuses are nice to have.

 

[Guyfang]

If anybody has their own experience with K1, I am interested in hearing from you before I remount it in the second MEP.

I have replaced many over the years. Most had water problems. Several had water at least as high as yours. Contact erosion was also a problem, but not anywhere as bad as water. Internal wire harness failure, (mostly cold soldering) also happens, but seldom. The coil burning up was the second most probable failure.

The contact erosion problem was a systemic problem, until we got people to understand that turning off the K-1 before the load was turned off, was a killer of contacts. Often, as the loads were not properly balanced, the erosion was only one set of the three sets of contacts. So that made troubleshoots interesting. You learn to test ALL three phases, not just one! Once you hear a three phase motor "moaning" due to only having two phases, it's a dead giveaway what the problem is.

Like you, I believe that heat problems, at high loads, had some if not most of the blame for water problems. Also, the gasket may have been installed incorrectly. We found in the early models that gaskets seem to be not properly mated to the base and the upper portion of the assembly. It seemed like they were too big. Could the gasket material have expanded because of heat or not being properly installed? I think so.

 

[kb3bf]

The largest concentration of rusty screws on my MEPS is right above and next to K1.
Water is somehow pouring into this corner of the MEP, also soaking the wires on the terminal strip with the lower ones being able to absorb water.

Since both of my MEPS seem to have this water seepage issue at this location there must be a point of entry.
Time to get the water hose and find out. I will add silicon beads where the covers overlap and see if a shelf/cover over the whole compartment does the job.

Any suggestions?
Do other MEP-802A owners also have a high concentration of rusty screws at this terminal strip?

 

[kloppk]

They all appear equally surface rusted. Might it just be due to humidity causing surface rust?

The heads of the screws look the same as the ones on the terminal strip in my 1997 802.

 

[kb3bf]

Guyfang wrote:.... Our long wire antennas looked liked like all the rest of the 52 million miles of commo wire strung all over the site. So, while many fingers were pointed, no one could be brought to accountability. We continued to talk with the world, until a complaint was filed with 32nd AADCOM, our major unit command. Threats of sending in CID and so forth stopped the whole show. I had a good time, learned a lot of neat things and began my self education in electrical repairs more complicated than checking for continuity. .....

When I was in Korea I used to run phone patches for anybody that wanted them. I ran an HF 20m dipole wire among three Quonset huts on Camp Humphreys. Months later the local MI group finally triangulated on me and caught me while I was transmitting, just as I saw my company 1st Sergeant escorting a bunch of officers towards me. They told me they had been looking for me for a quite a while but the transmissions were never long enough to locate me. How much time did they need?

A comment made by our CO was that MI unit was obviously not the most intelligent the army had. Everybody in my unit and in the area knew of the set-up since I had signs everywhere offering phone patches back to the US.

One of the MI officers asked me for my license and I showed them a Canal Zone one (where I was previously stationed), but had no clue it was not valid in Korea. They did shut me down, sealed my equipment until I left because I caused them RF front-end blocking to their receivers. I resumed the phone patches as a volunteer at a nearby MARS station, but it was not as convenient as having a rig right next to my bunk.

 

[kb3bf]

They all appear equally surface rusted. Might it just be due to humidity causing surface rust?

The heads of the screws look the same as the ones on the terminal strip in my 1997 802.
View attachment 634715

Hi Kurt,

you are probably right it may be due poor quality screws subject to humidity, but screws elsewhere do not appear to be as badly rusted, except the front area terminal strip screws near the back wall, by the voltage regulator. The relay screws seem to have less rust.
Why didn't they use SS in the first place?
But I still have the water issue with K1 to deal with. Not sure what to do if it is not a water seepage problem from the covers.
I'll report what I find out when I seal the covers and use a garden hose.

 

[kb3bf]

sorry folks, i just realized I posted the K1 relay problem in the wrong section.
hopefully the topic is still of interest to some.

While I am here I have a question for Kurt:
I assume the newer version of Arduino Mega 2560 (that's what I ordered) can still run the firmware/script written for an earlier Mega, right?
(I would be surprised if it didn't, just thought I would confirm because I don't know what the difference is).

I am still deciding what band to use to do the RF link.

 

[kloppk]

I would assume so. Products are normally forward compatible.
I just ran the compiler selecting both "Arduino/Genuino Mega or Mega2650" and "Arduino Mega ADK"
It compiled just fine selecting either of the target devices.

The UNO version has less I/O and less memory than the Mega's. Programming is identical as long as the program doesn't exceed the memory size and assuming you don't use I/O the Mega has that the UNO doesn't.
My original Autostart controller was UNO based until the design evolved and I needed more I/O for added features and some more memory for the growing software.

There are WIFI, Bluetooth and other modules you can use with the Arduino's.

 

[Guyfang]

OK, lots of people, (me among them) got so we would run a bead of silicone on every panel to keep out water. I have no reason to believe that is NOT a good idea. The army said no, not needed, but we still did it.

 

[TheAlfredo]

This is way above my skill set. Just take my money...LoL

 

[OverkillTASF]

Do you have any parameters for how you're driving the governor actuator, assuming the 802 has one like the 831a. Is it just PWM?

 

[kloppk]

Actually my system for the 802 & 803 does not in any way influence the mechanical governor with my system. It only provides the ability to remote start an 802 or 803 and remotely monitor the engine and generator parameters.
However... my prototype 831A SLC100 Governor Controller replacement does use PWM to actively control the setting of the actuator in a 831A to control the engine speed based on the invertors load.

For the MEP-831A SLC100 Governor Controller replacement see: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showt...100-Governor-Controller-Replacement-Prototype