.

[grendel]

I called the truck driveshaft shaft shop which is local to me, from Japan, as I couldn't wait any longer. They said less then or about $200 to lengthen it 2", $80 for a tube piece and $120 for labor (2 cut, 2 welds, balancing). Will do some measurements when I get home to see if any of my front prop shaft can be used (tube diameter, flange ends, etc....). They may not accept used tube, or may not warranty it if used. Pricing did not include any yoke ends or U joints if needed. Still going to ask them about making the transition via adapter type U joint vs changing one/both of the ends.

A new "companion flange" output yoke for the trans is $300 by itself: https://www.finditparts.com/products/306076/fuller-86728-1 so will see if I can simply use the full round U joint yoke that is on there already. Used yoke ends appear to be around $100, if can find one.

or I could ship you the driveshaft from the truck that trans came from...

 

[74M35A2]

Hold tight. Let me see what my options really are when I get back and do some measurements. Thanks everybody.

 

[grendel]

It uses the same tube size as my M932A2. Could be an easy answer.

It's an 1850 series joint.

 

[74M35A2]

I think you mean 1810 style U joint. Eaton/Fuller doesn't offer any yokes with an "1850" joint.

Interesting. Maybe. I have to use my stock slip jointed shaft, but I could use a section of your tube with the yoke on one end to be welded to mine and extend it 2" at the simultaneously, and adapt the trans side of the shaft at the same time.

Maybe, would just want a sawed of end of it. Let me ask the driveshaft shop what is the shortest they can work with to be able to cut it square with their equipment.

If the tube diameter is same as the front prop shaft, amd the front prop uses the same type u joint as what is on the manual trans now, then I already have all the parts I'll need to do this.

This is starting to sound familiar. If you like your trans yoke, you can keep your trans yoke...

 

[74M35A2]

I'll have to flip the driveshaft around end to end for any yoke weldment on the trans side of the shaft to work. Just puts the slip spline on the transfer case side. Anybody see any difficulty in installing and using the driveshaft "backwards" like that? I would think which end the slip spline is at does not really matter...???

Adapter joint choices. This still looks like the easiest way, eapecially if the shaft shop complains about welding used parts on.

http://www2.dana.com/Expert/wc.dll?hvtss~dedsec~2~13~02~

 

[74M35A2]

OK, did some measurements. The trans output yokes on the Allison and RoadRanger are different spline. They are also different U joint. The main propeller shaft is also different diameter than the axle drive shaft, 4" vs 3.5" respectfully, so I can't simply salvage parts from my removed front driveshaft. Plus the axle driveshaft companion flange uses even smaller U joints than what is on the manual trans now.

U joint style on the RR manual trans is a 1710. So at this point, I will get the main shaft cut and extended 2", and also the end yoke replaced from the current 8.5C "wing bearing" type to the 1710 type with what is known as a "weld yoke" for 4" tube. $200 to lengthen the shaft, $100 for the weld yoke, and then cost of a new 1710 U joint. I'll also have to flip the main shaft around, so the 4" tube portion is up by the trans and not the transfer case, slip spline end will be moved to the transfer case end. Shop experts said should be no problem, as some truck makers do this stock, but most do not for whatever reason.

There was an adapter U joint made in the link above to go from one to the other directly, but it is now obsolete.

 

[Jbulach]

OK, did some measurements. The trans output yokes on the Allison and RoadRanger are different spline. They are also different U joint. The main propeller shaft is also different diameter than the axle drive shaft, 4" vs 3.5" respectfully, so I can't simply salvage parts from my removed front driveshaft. Plus the axle driveshaft companion flange uses even smaller U joints than what is on the manual trans now.

U joint style on the RR manual trans is a 1710. So at this point, I will get the main shaft cut and extended 2", and also the end yoke replaced from the current 8.5C "wing bearing" type to the 1710 type with what is known as a "weld yoke" for 4" tube. $200 to lengthen the shaft, $100 for the weld yoke, and then cost of a new 1710 U joint. I'll also have to flip the main shaft around, so the 4" tube portion is up by the trans and not the transfer case, slip spline end will be moved to the transfer case end. Shop experts said should be no problem, as some truck makers do this stock, but most do not for whatever reason.

There was an adapter U joint made in the link above to go from one to the other directly, but it is now obsolete.

I may have a weld on yoke for you, and a long shot, but what about using a longer 1710 slip yoke end? Anyone have any dimensions and spline count for for the slip yoke in the factory shaft?

 

[74M35A2]

Ha! Look at that! A pile of coolness. The 1710 joint ears measure about 6-1/8" outside-outside. If you have one of those for a 4" tube then let's talk.

Unsure about the spline count, but also a very creative fix if possible. Could make the entire ordeal a bolt on affair. I'm willing to pull it apart and measure/count.

Actually, a longer slip spline end in a 1710 config would do everything I need in a single swoop, and not even have to flip the shaft over end to end.

 

[Jbulach]

Ok, I measured up my closest possible slip end the best I could, looks to be a 1710 series,
16 spline,
with a 2.5” major, 2.145” minor OD,
and .235” wide outer, .19” inner tooth width, also about 9-1/4” possible spline engagement, all measurements are give or take...



Anyone know what spline our trucks run?

 

[74M35A2]

Understood, thanks. Can you take one more measurement? Seems industry goes from U joint bearing ear centerline to far end of spline. Reference pic below, measurement J (tap to zoom):



I was was able to spin off the spline seal on mine and measure the spline. It is also 2.5" OD and 16 spline. Luckily, this seems to be an industry standard.

I may may be able to use yours, even if too long. My "J" measurement using the above diagram is 5-3/4". I could either use yours as-is and the female spline will just be too long (no risk?), or I could cut yours down to length, but would then have to figure out how to retain the dirt seal on the end. I would probably just use a silicone 2"-3" hose adapter (this is how SeaDoo seals their spline driveshaft joints). Clamp the large end and leave the small end friction fit. Yoke OD is 3", and shaft OD is 2".

 

[Jbulach]

Understood, thanks. Can you take one more measurement? Seems industry goes from U joint bearing ear centerline to far end of spline. Reference pic below, measurement J (tap to zoom):

View attachment 704116

Looks to be right at 12”, but I wouldn’t be afraid to cut it down some if necessary, if by some miracle the splines happen to be the same.

 

[Jbulach]

Understood, thanks. Can you take one more measurement? Seems industry goes from U joint bearing ear centerline to far end of spline. Reference pic below, measurement J (tap to zoom):

View attachment 704116

I was was able to spin off the spline seal on mine and measure the spline. It is also 2.5" OD and 16 spline. Luckily, this seems to be an industry standard.

I may may be able to use yours, even if too long. My "J" measurement using the above diagram is 5-3/4". I could either use yours as-is and the female spline will just be too long (no risk?), or I could cut yours down to length, but would then have to figure out how to retain the dirt seal on the end. I would probably just use a silicone 2"-3" hose adapter (this is how SeaDoo seals their spline driveshaft joints). Clamp the large end and leave the small end friction fit. Yoke OD is 3", and shaft OD is 2".

Perfect! I think your seal idea will work fine, could even likely put band clamps on each end with as little movement as these shafts see. PM me where you want it to go, Ill get it out tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest so you can check it over.

 

[74M35A2]

PM sent. This could be the game saving ball. No driveshaft mods! Plug-and-play, just how everybody likes it.

 

[74M35A2]

Nothing exciting right now besides 2 hours of algebra homework a night with my daughter. Painting trans at work on my lunch break, battleship gray instead of the orange it was. Still need to install clutch pedal in truck before the swap, but we are getting close.

$72 for a 5 gallon pail of gear lube for the trans. Will fill it with synthetic 5W-30 engine oil for free that we have as scrap at work for the engine test run on pallet just so it is not spinning dry, then drain it. I hope to install my PTO on it once in the truck, which will require draining it anyway, so want to get that on before I fill it a second time.

 

[74M35A2]

Update to above. $240 for 4 gallons of synthetic 50W. Ouch. Can use 40W engine oil, but comparing the change intervals, something good is going on with the synthetic. 60,000 miles fluid change interval if using 40W engine oil, and 500,000 mile change interval if using synthetic 50W. 50W engine oil is same viscosity as 90W gear oil. Interesting chart may be posted elsewhere on this site, but here it is if you want to take a peek:

 

[74M35A2]

Hydraulic clutch slave cylinder installed. U-joint test fit. Both OK. PTO port cover installed for test run on pallet.

 

[red]

When you go to install those u joints put a little bit of anti-seize on the outside of those caps. Will help alot when it comes time to replace them. Replacing those on service calls has taken me anywhere from 10 minutes to 3 hours depending on how stuck they are in the yokes.

 

[74M35A2]

Noted. Thanks.

 

[74M35A2]

Finalizing small things before the swap over Christmas break. Ordered 2012 Freightliner Cascadia clutch pedal pad for the hydraulic clutch master cylinder, hydraulic clutch hose retaining clip (BMW dealership), replacing all air lines on trans with stainless braided ones JIC ended, ordered 5/32" push-to-connect hard plastic air tubing for new ergo-correct modern Eaton shift knob update, ordered used leaf spring type rear trans support, etc.....

I know most trucks don't have such rear support, but that's a big cast iron tranny hanging off an aluminum SAE #2 flywheel housing. If it was off an SAE #1 flywheel housing of larger diameter, and bolted to a big block like an ISX or DD15, then I would go without. But an SAE #2 on the back of a medium duty size ISL, I'm just going to feel better jumping railroad crossings knowing it is holding up the rear of the trans.

 

[tobyS]

I certainly agree with you about supporting it. Same with the direct mount PTO hydraulic pumps, they should be supported to the back of the tranny.