Any quality diesel fuel system cleaners?

[Guyfang]

No my Mother in law. She fell and had to get checked out. She is 91 and still chugging along. We got to the ER at 12:30, got home at 18:40. The keys on my phone are about the size of a small tick. My fingers are about the size of bratwurst. My tablet is bad enough, but the phone drives me carzy. I just figgered out how to use it yesterday, on the 3.5 hour trip down to Munich. Got to be some kind of trick other then me sticking my fingers into a pincle sharpner and grinding them down.

The stones put me in 7th heaven!

 

[Light in the Dark]

Light came back on tonight... Guess I'm pulling sheet metal this weekend when the rain subsides. In the mean time though, gonna find out what replacement prices are for the parts in question.

 

[rustystud]

You know, when ever we got a dog looking gen set back from down range, used a little trick a buddy of mine in CECOM told me about. Drop the oil filter and oil. Put new oil filter on, and fill the gen set up with Transmission fluid. The good old cherry juce. Start her up and fun for 5-6 min. Stop, let set for an hour. Start, run 5-6 min and then change oil (cheap oil!) and filter. Run under load 4 hours. Change oil and filter. The amount of dirt that comes out of the engine will astound you!

Used that trick for years now. If you know your going to rebuild an engine, then you throw in about 2qts (20% of the engine oil) of Dexron II or Dexron III in it. Run the engine for a few days , then drain. Really helps in the clean-up. We also used to use "Rislone" engine cleaner, though I haven't seen that product for a while. Never use the Ford transmission fluid though. At least the old stuff. That had extra friction additives in it. In fact if you used Dexron in a Ford transmission like the C-6 you could destroy it in no time. The transmission was designed to use the extra additives in the fluid. Without them it would slip so bad the clutches and bands would burn up in no time. As a "race" fluid we would put Ford fluid in our Th350's and TH400's . In fact many of the "race" fluids out there where nothing more then Ford transmission fluid in a different package.

The problem with todays Fuels is they are all "Ultra Low Sulpher" . That means no lubrication ! When that stupid fuel first came out I was at the transit agency and half our fleet lost their injection pumps ! That was 700 buses !!!! The county was pretty pissed off at the extra costs that year.

 

[Chainbreaker]

The problem with todays Fuels is they are all "Ultra Low Sulpher" . That means no lubrication ! When that stupid fuel first came out I was at the transit agency and half our fleet lost their injection pumps ! That was 700 buses !!!! The county was pretty pissed off at the extra costs that year.

So, since all our diesel fuel here in OR is B5 minimum that should have sufficient lubricity without adding any additional lubricity additives like 2 stroke...correct? I used to use an off-brand station (great prices) that lists their diesel as "B20" on their price signage billboard (actually they said it was somewhere between B5 - B20 depending on their supplier). Due to some gunky goo I found in one of my gensets day tank while using their fuel (even with using additives - BioCide + Powerservice) I have now switched fuel suppliers to the higher priced "Shell B5" diesel. I figure the lower amount of 5% biodiesel should be enough to handle the lubricity and being less than 20% bio it might have more BTU's and a higher Cetane rating with using a more premium product. Given how hard it was to clean out my fuel tank I've decided to only use name brand fuel in my genset from here on out.

 

[rustystud]

So, since all our diesel fuel here in OR is B5 minimum that should have sufficient lubricity without adding any additional lubricity additives like 2 stroke...correct? I used to use an off-brand station (great prices) that lists their diesel as "B20" on their price signage billboard (actually they said it was somewhere between B5 - B20 depending on their supplier). Due to some gunky goo I found in one of my gensets day tank while using their fuel (even with using additives - BioCide + Powerservice) I have now switched fuel suppliers to the higher priced "Shell B5" diesel. I figure the lower amount of 5% biodiesel should be enough to handle the lubricity and being less than 20% bio it might have more BTU's and a higher Cetane rating with using a more premium product. Given how hard it was to clean out my fuel tank I've decided to only use name brand fuel in my genset from here on out.

Well, no. First you need to understand the "cetane" level needed to operate diesel engines efficiently. Most agree that a cetane rating of 45 to 55 is the perfect range for most all diesel engines. In todays "ultra low sulpher" age the average cetane level is 40 to 45. That lower level is due to the hydrogen needed to "clean up" the sulpher. It leeches out the cetane level along with the sulphur. So now we have some adding "Biodiesel" to help boost the cetane levels. "B5" though is not enough to really accomplish this. At only 5% biodiesel that is not enough on it's own. It should be more like 10% . Also before 1993 the sulphur level allowed was 5,000 ppm. Now it is only 15 ppm !!!! That is a horrendous drop in lubricating ability. So if you are adding a quart of 2 cycle oil to every tank of fuel that is a great start but I would also add "Opti-Lube XPD" . That is what I add to every tankful of fuel. It not only adds lubricity back into the fuel but also increases the cetane levels by 5 points on average. That will also help with fuel economy besides giving you a better starting and running engine.

 

[boatman69]

I use and recommend Biobor JF (jet fuel) and Biobor MD, together. Works well and can be found reasonably priced.

 

[robson1015]

What about PRI-D ?? Does it take care of lubricity and added cetane boost?? For the price it should be majical!! $30 for 16 oz. bottle. 1oz. per 15 gallons. Would I still have to add some 2 stroke oil??

 

[Chainbreaker]

Well, no. First you need to understand the "cetane" level needed to operate diesel engines efficiently. Most agree that a cetane rating of 45 to 55 is the perfect range for most all diesel engines. In todays "ultra low sulpher" age the average cetane level is 40 to 45. That lower level is due to the hydrogen needed to "clean up" the sulpher. It leeches out the cetane level along with the sulphur. So now we have some adding "Biodiesel" to help boost the cetane levels. "B5" though is not enough to really accomplish this. At only 5% biodiesel that is not enough on it's own. It should be more like 10% . Also before 1993 the sulphur level allowed was 5,000 ppm. Now it is only 15 ppm !!!! That is a horrendous drop in lubricating ability. So if you are adding a quart of 2 cycle oil to every tank of fuel that is a great start but I would also add "Opti-Lube XPD" . That is what I add to every tankful of fuel. It not only adds lubricity back into the fuel but also increases the cetane levels by 5 points on average. That will also help with fuel economy besides giving you a better starting and running engine.

Thanks Rusty, I hadn't realized that today's ultra low sulfur diesel had THAT much lower cetane levels and that BioDiesel was actually helping to up the cetane level. I must of had recollections of the older formulation of pure diesel, vs biodiesel, as far as cetane levels still stuck in my head. A while back I had experimented with so many diesel fuel additives I felt like I was making a witches brew (2-stroke oil, Power Service, Pri-D...) every tankful in my truck, tractor, generators, etc. plus Power Service Diesel Clear in any long term storage like aux tanks on generators. I recently cut back to only Power Service and started using Shell B5 for engines that get regular use (no biocides). From the sounds of it, not only do you want to insure the fuel has sufficient lubrication additives but that you are also upping the cetane levels plus keeping injectors clean. I will look into the Opti-Lube XPD thanks for the tip!

Also, am I right to assume that winter formulation diesel has even less cetane than summer formulation diesel?

Is it just me thinking that the Feds are out to kill off our on-road diesel vehicles by a slow strangulation death via the engines? I was going to recommend to the wife that she look for a diesel SUV for her next car as she is making quite a few road trips every few months to California. However, after reading all the horror stories of clogged DPF's, EGR's clogging intake manifolds and issues with DEF fluid malfunctions...a new diesel engine today with all the pollution control sensors, restricted intake and exhaust paths, along with lower quality diesel could potentially turn a modern road diesel vehicle into a very frustrating money pit to maintain with less reliability than the old diesels of yesterday. My 2004 Dodge Ram 5.9 Cummins just has a cat behind it and none of the other crap they have added since 2007. So, its going to be a keeper hopefully to turn into one of those million mile engines!

 

[Light in the Dark]

I have a 2014 F350 with a 6.7 Powerstroke... and I couldn't be happier. I've had only a single code in three years related to anything fuel (DEF tank had some crystalline left over when I ran it down). For some things... two steps forward, three steps back. I'm quite happy with the performance of the new diesels though. YMMV

 

[Chainbreaker]

I hear that a lot of people are beginning to consider leasing a new diesel vehicle as they don't want to own one after it goes off warranty. Of course if your handy and can diagnose and fix sensors, injectors, injection pumps, DPF's etc. outright ownership is still an attractive proposition I guess.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I'm thankful that this is a company truck... because I couldn't afford it otherwise! The advantage of running diesel for everyday folks, in these kind of trucks, is a substantially longer payback compared to the gas equivalent. The math doesn't work for 90% of owners.

 

[Guyfang]

For years, the german gov pushed diesel vehicles. And they are better. I have owned nothing but for the last 40 years.

In any case, thanks to the VW scandal, and the Greens having ever more power here in tree hugger land, the germans are now forbidding diesel vehicles, without the absolutely NEWEST tech, from entering some cities. If you don't have the right tag on your window, ticket time. And ever more cities are jumping on the bandwagon. I got a 70 euro ticket in Stuttgart. My car is a 2007. Not good enough! Now the talk is that to get out of fixing everyones cars, VW wants to sell you a NEW car. Thats right. And out of the heartfelt generosity they have for you, give you 4000 or 5000 credit against your old car they screwed up. The greens want to stop production of diesel cars. Force you to get an electric car.

You got to love such people.

 

[Light in the Dark]

How considerate!

 

[Tinstar]

Study that was posted elsewhere on SS.

 

[NormB]

View attachment 699371
Study that was posted elsewhere on SS.

I found a deal on Opti-Lube XPD for a couple gallons. At the rate I drive my truck, it'll last several years if not a decade. Mileage may change in a few years with my move to TN.

NB

 

[NormB]

For years, the german gov pushed diesel vehicles. And they are better. I have owned nothing but for the last 40 years. In any case, thanks to the VW scandal, and the Greens having ever more power here in tree hugger land, the germans are now forbidding diesel vehicles, without the absolutely NEWEST tech, from entering some cities. If you don't have the right tag on your window, ticket time. And ever more cities are jumping on the bandwagon. I got a 70 euro ticket in Stuttgart. My car is a 2007. Not good enough! Now the talk is that to get out of fixing everyones cars, VW wants to sell you a NEW car. Thats right. And out of the heartfelt generosity they have for you, give you 4000 or 5000 credit against your old car they screwed up. The greens want to stop production of diesel cars. Force you to get an electric car. You got to love such people.

Two years ago when our college-age son's Chevy HHR needed major suspension surgery, my wife and I detailed it and traded it in on a VW (I forget the model) for our him.

The salesman pushed diesel. Pushed it. Pushed it again. At the time I'd looked it up and decided based upon the vagaries of even FINDING diesel in some areas (he likes to drive - a lot - and was heading to Wisconsin for grad school soon), much less using the right additives, etc., we said no, thank you, and bought a gasoline model.

Good foresight, I think.

Then I bought a HMMWV. And a diesel tractor. Go figure.

 

[rustystud]

Thanks Rusty, I hadn't realized that today's ultra low sulfur diesel had THAT much lower cetane levels and that BioDiesel was actually helping to up the cetane level. I must of had recollections of the older formulation of pure diesel, vs biodiesel, as far as cetane levels still stuck in my head. A while back I had experimented with so many diesel fuel additives I felt like I was making a witches brew (2-stroke oil, Power Service, Pri-D...) every tankful in my truck, tractor, generators, etc. plus Power Service Diesel Clear in any long term storage like aux tanks on generators. I recently cut back to only Power Service and started using Shell B5 for engines that get regular use (no biocides). From the sounds of it, not only do you want to insure the fuel has sufficient lubrication additives but that you are also upping the cetane levels plus keeping injectors clean. I will look into the Opti-Lube XPD thanks for the tip!

Also, am I right to assume that winter formulation diesel has even less cetane than summer formulation diesel?

Is it just me thinking that the Feds are out to kill off our on-road diesel vehicles by a slow strangulation death via the engines? I was going to recommend to the wife that she look for a diesel SUV for her next car as she is making quite a few road trips every few months to California. However, after reading all the horror stories of clogged DPF's, EGR's clogging intake manifolds and issues with DEF fluid malfunctions...a new diesel engine today with all the pollution control sensors, restricted intake and exhaust paths, along with lower quality diesel could potentially turn a modern road diesel vehicle into a very frustrating money pit to maintain with less reliability than the old diesels of yesterday. My 2004 Dodge Ram 5.9 Cummins just has a cat behind it and none of the other crap they have added since 2007. So, its going to be a keeper hopefully to turn into one of those million mile engines!

Your right about winter fuel (diesel #1) having less cetane levels as summer fuel (diesel #2) . It also does less lubricating as they remove the "paraffin" from the fuel to prevent gelling at cold temperatures. So not only does "winter" fuel have less cetane levels, it also has less lubricating properties. Some fuel companies add "Kerosene" to the diesel which helps with gelling but it also lowers the cetane levels.
So bottom line, add an additive in winter !

About government regulations trying to destroy diesels. This picture is of the exhaust system on a bus I worked on 2 years ago just before I retired. It has it's own ECM to control it.
I feel people in general think of diesels as "dirty" engines. So the politicians are reacting to that perception. The truth is far from that, but people still see in their minds eye that semi-truck with bellowing clouds of black smoke on the highway.

 

[Guyfang]

I cant say what portion of the population drives diesels here, but its huge. Diesel is cheaper then gas. Today, diesel was 1.17 euro a liter. On Tuesday, in munich it was 1.28 euro a liter. Gas, and we only have unleaded and Bio-gas, cost 1.58-1.65 a liter. Work the math. The next time you complain about fuel prices. €1.17 X 3.8= $5.58 or 1.28 X 3.8= 5.78 dollar a gallon.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Your right about winter fuel (diesel #1) having less cetane levels as summer fuel (diesel #2) . It also does less lubricating as they remove the "paraffin" from the fuel to prevent gelling at cold temperatures. So not only does "winter" fuel have less cetane levels, it also has less lubricating properties. Some fuel companies add "Kerosene" to the diesel which helps with gelling but it also lowers the cetane levels.
So bottom line, add an additive in winter

So it would be better to fuel up bulk generator fuel in summer and use a winter anti-gel additive, versus filling up in winter, right? At least in our climate. Although, if I was located where it dropped below zero F I might not trust an aftermarket additive to do the job on summer blend diesel as well.

 

[snowtrac nome]

I live just below the arctic circle maybe I can be of some help just look at Nome Alaska on the map. we run #1 ulsd in the winter will will be making the swap over here in the next month if you have a non dpf engine look at jet-a still has the sulfur in it it will have a lower c tain rating but you can boost it up a bit with additive and jet -a will flow at - 50 used be before the ulsd requirement jet-a was our winter fuel. for a stand by generator I would run jet a year around and on the smaller engines you wont notice power or any real fuel economy difference. step up the big engines like a triple 7 haul truck or a 5 meg power plant and the difference becomes pretty noticeable in my 6 b cumming I could not feel the difference and only barely notice the mileage difference