Any quality diesel fuel system cleaners?

[snowtrac nome]

also blend of #2 and #1 can give you a service rating to - 15 but unless its blended properly the heavier product can settle out over the long term.

 

[Daybreak]

Howdy,

I am lucky to have a Southern States SuperGold® premium diesel fuel here at 50 cetane.

500 gallon Off-road farm tank just filled the day before Harvey hit.

100% pure diesel, Red tint off-road, and green on-road. All still ULSD 15ppm

 

[rustystud]

Howdy,

I am lucky to have a Southern States SuperGold® premium diesel fuel here at 50 cetane.

500 gallon Off-road farm tank just filled the day before Harvey hit.

Yes you are lucky. Thanks for rubbing it in !!! I cannot remember the last time I saw 50 cetane fuel up here. Ever since the Feds mandated that "all" diesel fuel sold must meet the Ultra Low Sulphur standard, that dried up my off-road diesel supply.

 

[rustystud]

I live just below the arctic circle maybe I can be of some help just look at Nome Alaska on the map. we run #1 ulsd in the winter will will be making the swap over here in the next month if you have a non dpf engine look at jet-a still has the sulfur in it it will have a lower c tain rating but you can boost it up a bit with additive and jet -a will flow at - 50 used be before the ulsd requirement jet-a was our winter fuel. for a stand by generator I would run jet a year around and on the smaller engines you wont notice power or any real fuel economy difference. step up the big engines like a triple 7 haul truck or a 5 meg power plant and the difference becomes pretty noticeable in my 6 b cumming I could not feel the difference and only barely notice the mileage difference

Where are you buying "Jet-A" fuel from ?

 

[Chainbreaker]

Yes you are lucky. Thanks for rubbing it in !!! I cannot remember the last time I saw 50 cetane fuel up here. Ever since the Feds mandated that "all" diesel fuel sold must meet the Ultra Low Sulphur standard, that dried up my off-road diesel supply.

Is the marine diesel they sell here in PNW any higher cetane? I understand it to be pure diesel, no bio in it.

 

[Guyfang]

Where are you buying "Jet-A" fuel from ?

The Air Force has it, and I would think the air lines use it too.

 

[boatman69]

Never bought jet-a, but do take the go-fast boat to the airport and fill up with 100LL (low lead) gas.

 

[Guyfang]

During the first gulf war, right before Basra fell, I got a call at 01:something in the morning on a sat phone the size of a cinder block. I was fast asleep at my shop in Miesau, Germany. C-1/7 ADA, who were poised to follow into Basra after the assault were just about ready to run out of fuel. They were the Patriot unit covering the advance troops in case of an air attack or Scud attack. They had approx 60 min left of military JP-8 fuel. No chance of resupply. But the Army had found a stock of Iraqi Jet-A1. Could the D424A engine, (in the 150 KW Patriot generator) burn it. "How the hel* do I know" was my answer. I told CW3 Fischetti to call me back in a half hour. I started calling all my Air Force buddies. No one knew anything. I called everyone and his dog. Didn't matter what time it was to me. After I woke up a Lt. Colonel in Ramstein, the support squadron commander, and he directed me to a Senior Master Sergeant, who gave me the phone number to the Air Force Fuel lab in Iceland, I got an answer. Yep, it's good to go for the 150 KW turbine engine. I no sooner put the phone down and it rang again. Chief Fischetti was freaking out. Less than 20 Minutes fuel. The man was a PITA under the best of circumstances. I told him "Go for it"! and he hung up.

Had I read the -12 book again, it was plainly listed in a table in the back of the book, as an authorized fuel . Jet-A1 is normal jet fuel, JP-8 with inhibitors to prevent freezing up at very high altitudes. Nothing more.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Had I read the -12 book again, it was plainly listed in a table in the back of the book, as an authorized fuel . Jet-A1 is normal jet fuel, JP-8 with inhibitors to prevent freezing up at very high altitudes. Nothing more.

Suppose its better you found this detail, versus one of the chain you called....

 

[Guyfang]

Yeah, well.........................................

 

[Tinstar]

Jet A-1 is the civilian aviation fuel.
Low flash point, evaporates fairly quickly, smells strong for a bit and burns very nice in Diesels. Still dry as already noted.
Freezes at -75 below if I remember correctly.

JP-8 is the fuel the US Military uses. British forces also.
It is oily to the touch, stronger smell for longer periods and doesn't Evaporate as quickly
Still low flash point.
Additives added for lube, corrosion prevention.
Military uses it in everything from Fighter jets to Generators.
The "one fuel" concept to simplify logistics.

Exception is the US Navy uses a slightly different blend.
I don't remember what the difference is but have heard it cost more.

JP-8LT is the same except addictive added to prevent gelling at extremely low temps.


You can buy JetA from most small airports.
It's not that expensive. Depending on location from $3.25 to 6.50 a gallon.
Most will not let you drive your 300 gallon tank on airport property, but you can do 5 gallon cans.
Ask nice and talk to the airport manager. FBO manager also. Usually something can be worked out.
Some small airfields even have self-service JetA pumps, almost like a regular gas station.

I'm around it weekly and get all the JetA waste fuel I want.....mostly. There are other guys wanting it as well to use in their trucks
I burn it in my heaters and diesel trucks. I do not use it in my tractors since I have a off-road (red) diesel tank.

Airport lets me drive my truck on ramp, but I cannot tow a trailer on it. Their rules. So no filling up the 300 gallon tank.
They know me because I land there often to refuel. Have gate codes, etc.

So for the guys that want some Jet A, you can get it.



Edit:
#2 Diesel is an DOD approved emergency fuel. For the Helicopters anyway.
I can fly up to 50 flight hours with it.
The engines are scrapped after doing that.
Of course I will fly it as long as it stays in the air to get to friendlys.

 

[boatman69]

My 831 and 802 only listed D1/2, JP8. Had to wiki that one myself. Never knew what any of the JP #s stood for. Neat history. Just had to go 100 hrs. Straight here in Cape Coral/Ft. Myers due to Irma. The neighbors sure were impressed! All shutting down at night to conserve fuel. While the "good guys" were drinking cold ones in A/C 24/7!

 

[Bighorn]

Just bought 2 gallons of Optilube winter from Dave's car parts.
Our diesel is a blend of 75% #2 with 25% #1 diesel.
It is the same blend we had last winter and never reached cloud point.
Also a Thiel additive according to the delivery receipt.
We've got 3,000 gallons of the stuff for the emergency generator, LMC snowcat, and Cat 267.
I am going to further treat the fuel when I dispense it into the equipment with Optilube.
We had been using Lucas but seeing that chart made me decide to switch to a better product.

 

[Guyfang]

My 831 and 802 only listed D1/2, JP8. Had to wiki that one myself. Never knew what any of the JP #s stood for. Neat history. Just had to go 100 hrs. Straight here in Cape Coral/Ft. Myers due to Irma. The neighbors sure were impressed! All shutting down at night to conserve fuel. While the "good guys" were drinking cold ones in A/C 24/7!

There should be a data plate on the MEP-802A that lists the fuel authorized to be used in the set.
Also in the -10, PDF page number 62 gives an example of the plate.
DF1, DF2, DFA, JP-4, JP-5, JP-8

for the MEP-831, -13&P, page 60.
DF-1, DF-2 and JP-8

Every generator should have a data plate and it should be listed in the operators manual.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Is the marine diesel they sell here in PNW any higher cetane? I understand it to be pure diesel, no bio in it.

I may have found an answer to my question on marine diesel under the Wiki on Jet fuel:

"...The introduction of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel or ULSD brought with it the need for lubricity modifiers. Pipeline diesels before ULSD were able to contain up to 500*ppm of sulfur and was called Low Sulfur Diesel or LSD. In the United States LSD is now only available to the off-road construction, locomotive and marine markets. As more EPA regulations are introduced, more refineries are hydrotreating their jet fuel production, thus limiting the lubricating abilities of jet fuel, as determined by ASTM Standard D445."

Wiki Reference (everything you wanted to know about Jet fuel and then some!):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel#JP-5

 

[Daybreak]

I may have found an answer to my question on marine diesel under the Wiki on Jet fuel:

"...The introduction of Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel or ULSD brought with it the need for lubricity modifiers. Pipeline diesels before ULSD were able to contain up to 500*ppm of sulfur and was called Low Sulfur Diesel or LSD. In the United States LSD is now only available to the off-road construction, locomotive and marine markets. As more EPA regulations are introduced, more refineries are hydrotreating their jet fuel production, thus limiting the lubricating abilities of jet fuel, as determined by ASTM Standard D445."

Wiki Reference (everything you wanted to know about Jet fuel and then some!):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel#JP-5

Howdy
From experience of having diesel delivered.

Diesel fuel dyed red, meant non-taxed, off-road diesel, and used to be 3000ppm Sulphur (I do not need to hear from those people in states that say there fuel or HHO is not taxed)

The industry changed
Diesel fuel then changed to LSD 500ppm

The latest is where we are today with ULSD at 15ppm

The only authorized use of the older diesel 3000ppm is for Locomotives. Ya can't get it anymore.

Home Heating Oil - HHO at one time was a specific item itself. It did not have the additive packages etc... many plants (fuel Farms) stopped that practice as it was easier to have 2 types of #2 diesel fuel, road grade green and Off-road (NON-Taxed) red dyed.

NO, do not tell me HHO and off-road diesel is the same, it is today with where the price points are. If somehow the price separation was 40 cents, yes, you would have 2 different products as HHO and off-road diesel.

Additive packages have relegated that practice to being the same. Lubricity modifiers, smoke inhibitors, etc...

Off-road diesel = is dyed red = non-taxed.
Around here if you happen to drive a diesel, and you come to a check point, they use a long straw and dip your tank for inspection. If they ever see the slightest tinge of red.... you are in trouble with the tax-man.

The red dye in 1 cup of diesel can show up in a 100 gallon fuel cell. The red-dye is very easily scene.

Never ever mess with the Tax-man (IRS)

 

[rustystud]

Yes. I was just getting ready to comment when I read your last post. My neighbor is a fuel delivery guy. He told me all the diesel is the same now. Just dyed for tax purposes. Sorry to say, but Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel is here to stay. We all need to add additives to our diesel vehicles and equipment from now on, as the oil companies will not spend another penny on it to make it better if the government doesn't make them do it.

 

[NormB]

Yes. I was just getting ready to comment when I read your last post. My neighbor is a fuel delivery guy. He told me all the diesel is the same now. Just dyed for tax purposes. Sorry to say, but Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel is here to stay. We all need to add additives to our diesel vehicles and equipment from now on, as the oil companies will not spend another penny on it to make it better if the government doesn't make them do it.

I had exactly the same talk with a delivery driver last week. First time I'd ever looked at the truck much, and I saw a placard by the hose which said "#2 Diesel". I mentioned it to the driver and he said the same thing you heard, that it's just dyed for tax purposes and NOT to use it in my HMMWV.

When we got our HVAC system installed years ago, the installer told me if we ever ran out of fuel we could put five or ten gallons of diesel fuel in the tank if we couldn't get a delivery soon enough (Maryland has the occasional "snowmageddon" with upwards of 2-3 feet of snow or heavy ice); I plan ahead, tank never gets below 1/4 (full or empty, depending on which side of the equation you come upon first).


ALSO enjoyed Tinstar's post.

Reminded me of one MIA-POW mission in Cambodia. One morning on the flight line I saw a tech/crewman cleaning parts in a cut down oil barrel with maybe ten gallons of JP8 and one of the pilots smoking nearby. Like five feet away.

The rule pounded into our heads was "no smoking within twelve hours of flying or drinking within 50 feet of the flightline", but being a relatively new flight surgeon (and glider and light plane pilot), I freaked out over him smoking so close to flammable liquids, yadda-yadda.

He laughed, told me how hard it was to ignite the stuff, told the crewman to step back and proceeded to flick lit matches into the barrel. One after the other extinguished itself in the fuel without so much as a puff of smoke.

Did that myself recently as a refresher with some #2 diesel in a pie tin.

Nada. YMMV.

 

[Chainbreaker]

The only authorized use of the older diesel 3000ppm is for Locomotives. Ya can't get it anymore.

Thanks for pointing out that that the referenced WIKI section referring to ULSD is out of date except for Locomotive use. Also, thanks for your diesel fuel summary as it stands today! However, it does not account for States that have additional fuel requirements such as Oregon and Washington (there may be others) that have passed laws that mandated that X% BioDiesel be added to both Road Diesel AND Offroad Diesel. The only exception from the BioDiesel requirement, at least in Oregon is Marine Diesel. I guess the reason that Marine diesel is exempt from the addition of the BioDiesel requirement is that, from my understanding, BioDiesel when exposed to water in fuel becomes quite corrosive.

From some research I did, there are often fueling docks with marine pumps that already include premium additive packages straight from the pump such as "VaveTect" or offer various "Marine formulation" additives such as "BioBor MD". I think the marine additive packages are formulated to also include higher concentrations of water dispersion and corrosion resistance additives, which is also a problem when storing large quantities of diesel fuel here in Oregon over winter (our rainy high humidity season). Perhaps "Boatman69" will chime in with his experience with marine diesel additives experience and their effectiveness with onboard generators.

I may just have to get a buddy who has a large boat on coast to pick up a 55 gal drum of Marine Diesel for me!

Reference Marine & OTR additive: http://www.biobor.com/products/biobor-md-fuel-additives/marine-fuel-additives/

 

[boatman69]

I'm trying to dig up the white papers on lubricity testing. I can tell you right off the rip that 2-cycle and ATF aren't worth a snot for adding lubricity. I do use Biobor JF and MD. They both work well and are priced reasonably. I usually purchase from Amazon as much as I hate to. (do not like Jeff Bezos) - but that's a whole nother story.