GL-1 Gear Oil Alternative

[treeguy]

Sooooooooooo...........Whats the diff. between SAE50 and 80/90?
WHY is there no RIGHT answer? Bottom line for lubes in deuce all around is?
(easy TM POLICE)

 

[mikey]

The document that Chevyman posts clearly states to NOT USE GL-5 ..... Numerous times!

I can get GL-1 at the local NAPA for about the same price. Sounds like I am going to use the good old GL-1!!

Dave

im seeing something else in that document that i have never read or seen here before...

how much credence should be given to the other warnings at the bottom of that document?

"do not mix or switch oil types. Use the same oil that initially filled the transfer case"

 

[mobileauto2000]

im seeing something else in that document that i have never read or seen here before...

how much credence should be given to the other warnings at the bottom of that document?

"do not mix or switch oil types. Use the same oil that initially filled the transfer case"

Yes this has me concerned. My trans and transfer case have to heavy of oil in them. I don't know exactly what because I did not change it. But both shift real hard until they have been completely warmed up. on the trans a lot of presser is needed on the sincros. But what bad thing is gonna happen when i change to 50w motor oil?

 

[boblester40]

Sooooooooooo...........Whats the diff. between SAE50 and 80/90?
WHY is there no RIGHT answer? Bottom line for lubes in deuce all around is?
(easy TM POLICE)

SAE 50 is a straight grade and 80/90 is a multi which has viscosity modifiers in it which allows the oil to be thinner when cold allowing better cold lubrication properties , once it warms up the additives maintain the viscosity better than a straight grade thats why straight grades were dumped in the 80`s , the only real benefit for using SAE grades i have found is that on old engines with out oil filters the old straight grades did not have as much detergent in them which allows the solids to drop out into the sump for draining off , but nowadays i cant see why you would not use them , there is not much difference from a reo diff to a modern tractor / truck diff.

rgds
bob

 

[stumps]

Because the transmission/transfer case manufacturer has no control over how the different additives from different oil vendors may fight each other, they ALL will recommend that you not mix oil types and brands.

Because of all of the nooks and cranny's in a transmission/transfer case, and because the seals tend to absorb some of the oil, it is very difficult to completely drain all of the old oil out when you do an oil change. Since they do not want you to mix oil types and brands, to be consistent, they have to say stick with the same oil type and brand you first used.

My recommendation would be to drain the GL(whatever is in there), put in SAE30, SAE40, or SAE50 MOTOR oil, and plan to change it out again after a short while. That should do an adequate job of cleaning the old oil out of the system.

If you are in a colder climate, SAE30 may be best for you. If you are living off in the hubs of Hades, perhaps SAE50. In any case, GL5 is not the right stuff for our vehicles. It is an extreme pressure (EP) lubricant, and is only appropriate for the differentials, and the winch.

Remember, you are not the Army, and you do not have to be concerned with the logistics of storing, transporting, and changing the oils, in battlefield conditions, on a few hundred thousand vehicles. How could it possibly matter to you that you have to use three different types of oil to maintain your deuce instead of two? This is a prime case where best trumps good enough.

-Chuck

 

[boblester40]

Simple guide

Gear oil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just becuase an oil has EP addtive does not make it wrong , the addative helps it to its job even better how can this have an adverse effect ? Untill someone can show me the adverse effect of EP on these axels i will use it , What do you think is in the lucas additives some guys rave on about putting in on here ? buy putting these additivies in GL1 you are basically making home made GL5 but at twice the cost

 

[davey8943]

I have to say this:

Lucas has an EXCELLENT marketing department.

Modern lubricants and fluids have been engineered to do the job better and longer when used straight out of the bottle.

I don't use Lucas in anything I own, and I never will. I would rather put the money into FIXING whatever is broken than pouring it down the drain...

I know there are MANY MANY people that swear by it; but I have never seen any scientific data that shows Lucas does anything better than straight modern lubricants.

Go ahead, flame away!

Dave

 

[paulfarber]

http://www.meritorhvs.com/MeritorHVS_Documents/MM1.PDF

Pg 179... check it out. That's for the transfer case, revised July 2010

You post a random scrap of paper and yell "EUREKA!".

First, this is NOT an ARMY LUBE ORDER. I don't think the Army is going to dump every gallon of GL5 they have over your random scrap of paper.

SECOND, please read page 176, or for those that missed itL:

Most Meritor transfer cases can operate above 190°F (88°C)
without damage. However, if the oil temperature reaches
250°F (121°C) for non-synthetic oil or 275°F (135°C) for
synthetic oil, stop the vehicle immediately and check for the
cause of overheating. The maximum continuous running oil
temperature should not exceed 225°F (107°C) for
non-synthetic oil or 250°F (121°C) for synthetic oil. Damage to
components can result.

NO WAY YOUR DEUCE IS RUNNING THAT HOT. If you read my previous posts, GL5 has ALWAYS had an issue with high temps. Its the problem that CAUSES the sulfur/phosphorus to turn into acid (with water). It seems that THEIR SPECIFIC transfer case runs so hot it will BURN/BOIL any NON-SYNTHETIC lube.

So when you post:

Meritor does not approve petroleum-based and multiviscosity
oil. Do not install API GL-5 oils, which contain
extreme-pressure (EP) additives. These additives can form
sludge at normal operating temperatures. Damage to
components can result. Use only SAE Grade 50W synthetic oil
in the transfer case.

IS EXPLICITLY BECUASE OF THIS: p176 again

Meritor MTC-4208, MTC-4209 and MTC-4210 Series transfer
cases may operate with an oil temperature above 300°F (148°C).
However, if the oil temperature reaches 350°F (177°C), stop the
vehicle immediately and check for the cause of overheating. Oil
temperatures at this range should only occur in linehaul or utility
applications that operate under high speed for long periods of time.

This random scrap of paper (another feeble attempt to no learn about GL5) is just that.

Show me a LO change, then you have something. Till them, I'll file this under another random google search for that is in no way authoritative for the US ARMY or M35 transfer cases.


That took me 5 minutes to read and disprove. Come on, when are you going to really READ the information rather than grab at random scraps of paper????

Oh, and the mixing of oils, long been disproved as hogwash UNLESS the temps are so extreme (as above) that will burn/boil petroleum based lubes.

 

[mobileauto2000]

I always ignore the manufactures to. They are just dumb to spend all that money on engineering and testing and more engineering and testing to come up with an recommended lube. Every one knows the end user who did not do all the testing and engineering knows better. Yes the other lubes work.
but if the manufacture recommends something it is usually the best option. As for random scraps of paper i dont know of anyone who goes to a manufacture and has the info tattod to their forehead. They still tend to write on paper

 

[paulfarber]

I always ignore the manufactures to. They are just dumb to spend all that money on engineering and testing and more engineering and testing to come up with an recommended lube. Every one knows the end user who did not do all the testing and engineering knows better. Yes the other lubes work.
but if the manufacture recommends something it is usually the best option. As for random scraps of paper i dont know of anyone who goes to a manufacture and has the info tattod to their forehead. They still tend to write on paper

But you are using Manufacturer 'B's instructions for Manufacturer 'A's gear.

On top of that, the M35 transfer case does not get 250F+ to warrant synthetic oil.

PLUS you are not realizing the history of 20+ years of GL-5 oil in 300,000+ trucks.

You are not ignoring anything, you simple have it confused becuase you did not read the information, nor did you comprehend it.

But mainly I think you simply did READ THE POSTS. Not that that happens a lot here

 

[mobileauto2000]

The problem is i do understand. I am a professional mechanic and so i know what happens when you use gearoil in a transmission not designed for it. You know what happens? Usually nothing, works just fine. But sometimes...........

 

[boblester40]

On my final note may i just add that when the manufacture designed and tested the axels they will have done it with the oils availible at the time , 20 years later are they going to spend a whole load of money and time testing every new lube that comes out? probably not , the simplest answer to avoid any unwanted law suites is to state they do no approve these new oils and stick to what they know , where the truth is these new oils out perform the old but not to spend $$$ they stick with the old .

rgds
bob

 

[nk14zp]

Any one want some.

 

[Chevyman_15237]

"You post a random scrap of paper and yell "EUREKA!".

First, this is NOT an ARMY LUBE ORDER. I don't think the Army is going to dump every gallon of GL5 they have over your random scrap of paper.

SECOND, please read page 176, or for those that missed itL:

Most Meritor transfer cases can operate above 190°F (88°C)
without damage. However, if the oil temperature reaches
250°F (121°C) for non-synthetic oil or 275°F (135°C) for
synthetic oil, stop the vehicle immediately and check for the
cause of overheating. The maximum continuous running oil
temperature should not exceed 225°F (107°C) for
non-synthetic oil or 250°F (121°C) for synthetic oil. Damage to
components can result.

NO WAY YOUR DEUCE IS RUNNING THAT HOT. If you read my previous posts, GL5 has ALWAYS had an issue with high temps. Its the problem that CAUSES the sulfur/phosphorus to turn into acid (with water). It seems that THEIR SPECIFIC transfer case runs so hot it will BURN/BOIL any NON-SYNTHETIC lube.

So when you post:

Meritor does not approve petroleum-based and multiviscosity
oil. Do not install API GL-5 oils, which contain
extreme-pressure (EP) additives. These additives can form
sludge at normal operating temperatures. Damage to
components can result. Use only SAE Grade 50W synthetic oil
in the transfer case.

IS EXPLICITLY BECUASE OF THIS: p176 again

Meritor MTC-4208, MTC-4209 and MTC-4210 Series transfer
cases may operate with an oil temperature above 300°F (148°C).
However, if the oil temperature reaches 350°F (177°C), stop the
vehicle immediately and check for the cause of overheating. Oil
temperatures at this range should only occur in linehaul or utility
applications that operate under high speed for long periods of time.

This random scrap of paper (another feeble attempt to no learn about GL5) is just that.

-Last time I checked, a random scrap of paper is not labeled, "Meritor Preventative Maintenance and Lubrication". A random scrap of paper is a crumpled up post it note in the trash...

-None of the tranfer cases you listed about a temperature issue are in an M35A2 (Meritor MTC-4208, MTC-4209 and MTC-4210 Series transfer cases). Pg 176 does not talk about a T-136!

 

[stumps]

I'm just curious, Paul....

Since you have made it abundantly clear that there is no document other than a US Army LO that will convince you that GL5 might be a suboptimal lubricant for use in civilian owned deuce transmissions and transfer cases...

And further, you have made it quite clear that you don't believe that there is anybody, anywhere, that might know better than the US Army what lubricant will give better performance than GL5 in a civilian owned deuce transmission or transfer case, and any such information to the contrary is just "random scraps of paper".

Why are you still contributing to this thread?

-Chuck

 

[paulfarber]

Because improper information is being put out.

The original transfer cases were Timken T136-21 Sprag Type; Timken T136-27 Air shift

The original transfer cases, since the mid 80's have run GL5 with absolutely no problem.

Now everyone is reverting to PRE-1980's GL-1, or even more funny, SYNTHETIC lube becuase they 1. are using an out of date, superseded and no longer produced lube (NGLI does not recognize the GL-1 standard any more, no one can even TEST GL-1 lubes for GL-1 specs) or 2. reading a random scrap of paper that say GL-5 NOW FORMS SLUDGE in transfer cases, and should not be used.

Really? Sludge? What is making its way into the oil to produce SLUDGE? For all the 'po-fessional mechanics' what is sludge? Come on... this is some basic stuff... and now how is this sludge getting into transfer cases, but NOT axles and trannys/PTO's?

The manufacturer most like has a line of 50W synthetic lube it wants to sell.

 

[paulfarber]

Ok, Page 176 is the chapter header. Page 179 (that people are saying is proof to not use GL-5 does not specify in any way the T136 transfer case.

Meritor != TImken. Part numbers are not matching up. What is the Meritor TC number of the case installed in my 66?

Again, how are you guy connecting Meritor part number from TImken part numbers? Page 181 lists all the TC's this 'no GL5' thing is referencing... I see no T136.

Please explain.

 

[paulfarber]

I did find this:

1997
Rockwell International spins off its automotive business, creating Meritor Automotive.


Then

2011
ArvinMeritor completes the divestiture of its light vehicle business in January 2011 and officially changes the name of the company back to Meritor - signifying a dedicated focus to the commercial vehicle and industrial businesses and marking an important evolution in the company's history.


So where is TImkin is all this? What s the Meritor PN for the TImkin T136-XX transfer case?

 

[paulfarber]

So my 76 parts manual lists the transfer case as a Rockwell. That clears that up, the site has some older information (maybe get an update?).

So, Meritor buys Rockwell. Whats the Meritor PN for the Rockwell T-136 transfer case?

PLUS if you reread the MM1 pdf it CLEARLY shows the that the 'no gl-5' is still in the section covering Meritor MTC-4208, MTC-4209 and MTC-4210 Series Transfer Cases.

If you re-read page 179 (which finally does list a T-136 (but is it the rockwell? Who knows? What proof do you have?)

The 'A.P.I. GL-5 (Axle Lube)4' CLEARLY has a NOTE 4 attached to it. What it note 4?

4 Do not use multi-viscosity (i.e., 80/90W) GL-5 gear oil, axle lube

It does NOT ban GL-5, it simply wants a single viscosity. Why? who knows? None of the 100's of deuces on this board are chewing up transfer, tranny or axles. Not has the Army come out and said (to my knowledge) that GL-5 will not be used.

There are way to many thing that people are stringing together trying to get OUT of using GL-5. Its proper, its correct, its called by EVERY CURRENT LO the Army makes pertaining to M35's.

I guess that people will simply run whatever is calling GL-1 (again, it doesn't exist) or spend the money for synthetic (hahahahaha I wonder if the purple lube makes it spin faster) than go with what current US Army Regulations are. And that is GL-5.

I humbly await more random scraps of paper to try and figure this out.

 

[m16ty]

Any one want some.

Thanks, I'll have some.

All I've found out is this- Paul says use GL-5. Some others say use GL-1 (which Paul says dosen't exist). Others say run SAE 50 or similar weight motor oil.

I honestly don't think we're ever going to come to a consensus on this subject. I guess read this thread and others like it and try and make a decision on what oil is best. I'm not going to get into the oil debate but I've done enough of my own research and am comfortable with the oil I'm using (GL-1).