max HP out of a 465 multi fuel?

[patracy]

I think a hx40 would have been a better choice.

I disagree. A HX40 shares the same shaft size as the HX35. They're prone to failure due to that. (Increased wheel diameter vs. smaller shaft diameter) With how much these trucks like to bark, I'd worry about the longevity.

 

[mightymanx]

I think a hx40 would have been a better choice.

Probably true, but I wanted to make boost down real low like as soon as I crack the throttle and I had the HX 35 on the shelf already. I can always upgrade later if needed. If I was a true diehard I would have called Turbonetics and gave them my wishes but I don't need that much performance (yet).

 

[LovinPSDs]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/members/ttfiveohranger.html

A inter cooler is not all that effective due to the intake being surrounded in a water jacket.

A.

Can you confirm that the water jacket is enough to drop the charged air to reasonable temps? I haven't researched enough about that topic on this forum specifically but to me it would seem the air coming from the charger will be much hotter and pass quickly thru the intake to get reasonable drops, Isn't the water jacket for heating the incoming air not cooling it?

 

[gimpyrobb]

Nope, it cools the air charge. If you want to read up on it, search threads made by cranetruck.

 

[mudguppy]

actually, it doesn't. re-read bjorn's results and compare them to any other IAC cooling means and you'll find that the drop in IAC temp is negligible. (something like 11°F of temp drop at 10-12 psi? this will likely net zero measureable increase in power output.)

besides, the non-turbo'd motors use the same intake; therefore, the intake was never designed to cool an IAC. it was more likely designed to increase and regulate the intake air temp for the hypercycle process using blended fuels.

the coolant jacketed intake functioning as an effective intercooler is a myth.

 

[mudguppy]

... it would seem the air coming from the charger will be much hotter and pass quickly thru the intake to get reasonable drops, Isn't the water jacket for heating the incoming air not cooling it?

i am much more aligned with your thoughts here than the popular myth about the intake manifold as a cooler, for the same reasons you've stated.

the LDT/LDS turbos don't create enough IAC pressure (and therefore, heat) for engine coolant to be a viable cooling medium. even if it were, the IAC doesn't stay in the manifold long enough or have enough surface area to have a siginificant transfer of heat.

 

[LovinPSDs]

I believe this ALOT more... I thought the water jacket was for super cold weather or something.

I reckon an intercooler would be a huge improvement on any turbo'd vehicle. Air to water with super short piping for instant spool up would be sweet But i don't have a deuce yet and don't know how much room there is in there. Again i would think any intercooler would be great. I also feel like your on the right track with a small turbo.. your not looking for 40PSI on these motors, your lookin for usable power.


I'm assuming Bjorn put a temp gauge on the charged air before and after the jacket? What kinda temps would you see on the air entering the intake, if they aren't that high money on IC the truck could probably be spent else where. I can't really think of a diesel application where an intercooler wouldn't help tho..

 

[JasonS]

According to the Continental literature, the water jacketed intake was designed to heat the air in cold weather.

 

[cranetruck]

According to the Continental literature, the water jacketed intake was designed to heat the air in cold weather.

Right, my understanding also.
I drilled a 1/8 dia hole in the intake manifold for the #6 cylinder, making sure I didn't hit the water jacket and installed a thermocouple and another in the intake manifold adapter.
Temp in intake manifold at 10psi boost was around 225°F IIRC and the temp at #6 cylinder dropped by 10-15 degrees only...not a scientific test, but an indication of what is happening.

 

[skidder]

WoW i have read all your post guys an IT sounds like you are trying to REINVENT the wheel !! Don"t forget the duce is HOW OLD ?? My first one was built in 1962 gaser lol . USE the best eng oil an filters (AMS OIL) 15w 40w an drive the duce at a safe speed, I plain to do a LDS eng bal the bottom end ,( crank clutch fly wheel rods pistons) THIS is just to make it More efficient !! an install the updated head gaskets or O-ring the head . I like my LDS in my 1970 duce W/W it drives an handles well on the highway skidder

 

[stumps]

...the coolant jacketed intake functioning as an effective intercooler is a myth.

However, if it is capable of heating the air to improve burning in cold weather (when fed with hot water), it is equally capable of cooling the air.... IF... you feed it with cold water.

Perhaps the coolant passages could be rerouted so that the coolant jacket is fed by a separate water system, and heat exchanger, along the lines of a transmission cooler put in front of the deuce's radiator?

-Chuck

 

[mudguppy]

i concur that it could be more effective if fed from a coolant source other than engine coolant. this is how modern ATW intercoolers are setup.

however, i still think the effectiveness will be limited due to the lack of surface area available for heat transfer and minimum time that the IAC is exposed.

 

[s1036s]

Why not add one of these water/ air intercoolers and just leave the stock intake manifold the way it is?

Front Mount Intercooler

Would this be easier, cheaper and more effective then a intercooler. Just have a small radiator in front of the stock deuce one. All you need is water/ air cooler, small electric water pump and a small radiator.

I havent had the joy of driving my deuce, but in stock form, how hot does the charge tube temp get? I wouldnt think you would gain much just by adding a cooler or intercooler. Maybe with the hx35 turbo, but would the stock deuce benefit?

 

[mudguppy]

... how hot does the charge tube temp get? ...

from post# 129:

... Temp in intake manifold at 10psi boost was around 225°F IIRC and the temp at #6 cylinder dropped by 10-15 degrees only...

 

[ttfiveohranger]

No modern diesels that I know of use air to water intercoolers.. the pump can fail. Not a good idea... Intercoolers help make more power by lowering the intake air temp. The only time it works well is in drag racing when you can have the second heat exchanger in a bucket of ice and do it run. You won't gain much efficiency if any at all. Just get front mount air to air intercooler off any modern diesel. You'll make more power safer. Get a pyrometer first thing. EGTs and RPM are big killers in diesels... them come the breaks due to raw power... Timing helps with power and EGTs OEMs like to use them with super chargers as they can be packaged easier. Smaller lines moving around the engine compartment.

If your worried about very cold outside temperatures run a pipe in place of the intercooler at that time.

 

[LovinPSDs]

Just to add fuel to the fire, I know modern diesel don't use them a-to-w coolers but does that have anything to do with modern trucks making 40+ PSI. I can hit 50's on my F350. 50 PSI would blow the lid right off a deuce. Just wondering if a A-to-W is more efficent in lower boost applications? Or would a huge intercooler like you see on mondern diesel be to large for a low boost app like a deuce?

I'm more trying to learn here not argue your statement

 

[s1036s]

I would base my decision, if i ever do it, is cost. Dodge intercooler, even used isnt cheap. Dont know about other coolers. Plus you will reroute charge tubes, add more clamps and hoses.
"A to W" cooler brand new is 200, plus a little pump and some coolant hose, and as long as you monitor charge temps, you will know when the pump fails.
If the pump fails you are basically are not cooling the air? Shouldnt be catastrophic. Stock deuce doesnt have a cooler. I see it as trying to mount an intercooler in the engine bay would be far more work then plumbing in "a to w" cooler.

 

[mightymanx]

I am more prone to believe that the cooland in the intake manifold is to regulate the charge in cold conditions there is no way it will cool it off.

On my turbo race car in sub 55* weather I need to put a heater on my intake pipe before it goes into the head because it is too cold and the fuel won't atomize. After a run at the top end of the track if the air temp is below 60* I will have ice on the post turbo to head intake pipe.

I personaly feel that an intercooler on such a short run with extremly limited geography is usless you will get better boost and throttle response by having a 6 inch direct run vice 5 feet of intercooled piping. Where are you going to fit a properly sized intercooler for a almost 500 inch engine anyway?

If I had any desire to intercool I would do it chemicaly but I am not trying to run more boost just make equivalent boost down low without turning up the fuel and trying to make my turbo a jet turbine.

15 PSI is not out of line as people are doing it right now on their upped fuel engine with the stock T-6 turbo. Now imagine how that upped fuel truck would drive if it made that boost at 1000 rpm through the whole rpm band vice only at redline and not increasing the fuel to do it.

 

[big block 88]

For one thing more boost does NOT mean more power. drive pressure is a big problem with high boost trucks. Modern diesel like the Powerjokes and Cummins have less than ideally designed heads with medicore air flow. That being the main reason the powerjokes and cummins use so much smaller overall turbo's than the Durama motors which have a pretty strong flow design.

If you are turning up the fuel in your duece there is noway you will not benefit from and air to air intercooler, along with water meth. You may not gain much power with an intercooler but you will benefit from cooler air temps. find a wrecked Powerjoke, Cummins or D-max and rob the intercooler off of it. I think they would be more than enough to cool the mild mannered multi fuel, and they are all pretty compact. The cummins being the smallest unit.

I make power in D-Max and Cummins trucks with fuel and timing more than boost. You run to much boost it will super heat the air trying to squeeze through the poorly flowing heads and its plumbing.

I my opinion I would build a balanced multi fuel with a low pressure twin turbo setup I would say runnin an HX35 gated to 8-10 psi feeding each of the 3 cylinders will make an incredibly well rounded engine.

 

[LovinPSDs]

For one thing more boost does NOT mean more power. drive pressure is a big problem with high boost trucks. Modern diesel like the Powerjokes and Cummins have less than ideally designed heads with medicore air flow. That being the main reason the powerjokes and cummins use so much smaller overall turbo's than the Durama motors which have a pretty strong flow design.

If you are turning up the fuel in your duece there is noway you will not benefit from and air to air intercooler, along with water meth. You may not gain much power with an intercooler but you will benefit from cooler air temps. find a wrecked Powerjoke, Cummins or D-max and rob the intercooler off of it. I think they would be more than enough to cool the mild mannered multi fuel, and they are all pretty compact. The cummins being the smallest unit.

I make power in D-Max and Cummins trucks with fuel and timing more than boost. You run to much boost it will super heat the air trying to squeeze through the poorly flowing heads and its plumbing.

I my opinion I would build a balanced multi fuel with a low pressure twin turbo setup I would say runnin an HX35 gated to 8-10 psi feeding each of the 3 cylinders will make an incredibly well rounded engine.

Powerjoke... Must have not come across many 6.4's lately.. To bad Shone couldn't have won DPC this year... back on topic

Pretty certain you can find a 6.0 ford stock intercooler pretty cheap... but I agree with above, if you making the piping anyway, go to a junk yard and find one that is the best size for the application, I have no idea on dimensions.