So reading you're difficulty with getting the long spring from the parking brake cable to the arm...I use a long pair of side cutters and push the spring back with it and lightly hold the cable with it...then you can pop the end on the arm easy...the bottom spring for the adjuster can be tough too but...install the spring first then use a pair of plyers and push one brake shoe back by grabbing the bottom of the steel on the shoe and install the adjuster...this might be easier to explain on a video but once you get this it makes drum brakes a 10 minute job. I do use the brake tool to get the upper springs on though but that's it with that thing since I've almost lost body parts with trying to use the curved end to hold springs and pull them tight. The brakes you got in the picture look great though with the exception of the one piston on the rear of the wheel cylinder...looks popped out. Great fix on that arm!!Here is an update to my progress.... I'm slow but I'll get it done eventually.
Yesterday I made a new pin for the parking brake lever. Used a 3/8" Grade 5 bolt, not the threaded part but the smooth shaft portion. I cut the head off, then clamped my dremel tool off the side of my workbench. Using a thin cutting disc, I held the bolt and cut a shallow groove all the way around. I got my kit of snap rings (lock rings?) and continued to deepen the groove slowly until I was able to use a small set of channel locks and snap the ring into place. Took it to the wire brush on my bench grinder to smooth it and remove any burs.
After getting the groove cut, I cut off the threaded portion of the bolt and dressed it. Then took a marker to "paint it" and used my dial calipers to scribe a line all the way around the bolt to mark the correct length and cut it with my angle grinder. Used the dremel tool to clean it up and finish it.
Looked good, so I set it up in my vice so that just enough of the top was sticking out of the parking brake lever (for it to end up at correct length) and tac welded it. Tapped it with a hammer a bit to straighten it and finished welding it.
I'll just leave out that I welded it in backwards the first time, had to grind the weld off turn the brake lever over and reweld it....
In the end it worked. Maybe this will help someone else who has the same issue. This part is not available Anywhere. Unless you need the passengers side... found a brand new GM one on ebay... but none for the drivers side...
View attachment 891261
View attachment 891264
View attachment 891266
View attachment 891265
View attachment 891267
View attachment 891268
View attachment 891269
Today the self adjuster kits arrived. And between the TM's, some youtube videos, and looking at the passengers side brakes. I was slowly able to figure out how everything was supposed to go together. Took three hands to get the spring pulled back on the parking brake cable and get the parking brake lever on the cable before letting the spring go. That spring is certainly tough, and no my parking brake wasn't on.
One thing I ran into was that on the new brake shoes, one shoe was longer and thicker than the other. Actually my Dad had come over to see what I was doing and he is the one that noticed it. The shoes that were on the truck were exactly the same in length and thickness. So wasn't sure if I had the wrong shoes or what.
Did some research online and found the consensus of several websites and some videos, that *if* a set of brake shoes had one shoe that was longer and/or thicker than the other, then the the long/thick shoe went on the "rear side" of the wheel. As it takes more of the braking force and is also the parking brake, and other opinions. In any case, this made sense to me so thats how I installed them.
View attachment 891270
View attachment 891271
So the drivers side is done, all new parts from the wheel cylinder all the way up, with the exception of the repaired parking brake lever and cable. Brake line fitting turned out of the wheel cylinder just fine, and the lines are good and solid so I'm leaving them. But I am going to replace the rear brake hose. (will also replace front hoses when I get to the front end).
I will say, it has been several years since I installed brake shoes ( the last one's I did was on an 90's model GM Suburban)... but the way the springs and etc are setup on this truck, its the hardest one's I've ever had to do. Had to use two bar clamps to hold the first shoe in place while getting the initial pins and springs on there, and still could have used three hands...
Also the diagram in the TMs aren't great in showing how it's assembled, and are missing a couple parts completely. Even though I had photos of this hub, because of all the thick oil and the parts that were missing/fell out of the bottom when I removed the drum, the photos didn't help much. I'm glad I waited on taking the passengers side apart.
Spent way to much time just to get one side done today. Good thing I don't own a mechanic shop, I'd go out of business.
Anyway, the passengers side should go much faster now that I know where all the parts and spring go. Should be able to get that done tomorrow unless something comes up. Then just be waiting on the axle nut socket.
View attachment 891272
hum... have to fix that wheel cylinder pin...
-
Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
Need Some Help with Rear Axle Seal "blow out"
- Thread starter Commander5993
- Start date
- 806
- 200
- 43
I got both sides all back together the other day. And yeah, I saw that wheel cylinder pin the when I posted that photo. I fixed it since.
Just got the differential cover gasket all cleaned off, and reinstalled the cover with the new gasket earlier today. Unless something comes up, I should get the drums reinstalled, brakes adjusted, axles reinstalled with new flange gaskets, and fill the differential tomorrow.
So SKF is actually recommending preload on tapered roller bearings for longest life. I guess that means some drag is acceptable. I wonder how backing off to the first key affects the preload.
- 806
- 200
- 43
Well... guess I'll find out how much is still "within range". After torquing to 50ft lbs, I backed the axle nuts off almost half a turn. Everything still felt good, no movement etc. I drove the truck today about 60 to 70 miles, felt of the hubs right after returning home and they were all cool except the right front seemed just a little bit warm. Oh, and obviously since I drove the truck today, I finished everything up yesterday. My Dad came over to the barn when I was working on it, he used to own a mechanic shop 40 years ago so of course he still wants to help. I could have used my vacuum pump, but I let him pump the brakes while I bled out both wheel cylinders until fresh purple fluid finally came through. So the rear has been completely flushed. Got to get some more DOT 5 now, stuff isn't cheap and everyone carries pints... In any case, took it for a short test drive after reassembly, just down the road here yesterday, didn't find any leaks or etc afterword.
Which leads to a possible issue I ran into during the 60+ mile drive today. When I brake hard, the truck pulls to the right. I don't know how a rear drum brake would cause this, seems like it would have to be the front wheel. On the other hand I don't think it was doing this before, and I say it that because I usually don't need to brake hard in normal driving. So I may have missed it previously. I was going to pull a front wheel anyway to take a look at the condition of the pads, rotors, and etc before ordering parts for the front. So guess I'll pull the front right and see if I can find any issues there while I'm at it. On the other hand, maybe its the front left that *isn't* grabbing..? Or maybe the rear brake shoes just haven't seated yet, or I didn't get the rear left adjusted correctly...
I also found out that the speedometer cable must have pulled out of the transfer case end when I was working on the dash and fuel gauge, as the speedometer doesn't work. So guess I'll be pulling the dash again, or maybe better to pull the cover or wherever the cable feeds into on the other end first. Have to look that up in the TM, something I've never had to work on/replace before. At least the fuel gauge works now, so still 1 out of 2 works...
nyoffroad
Well-known member
- 942
- 690
- 93
- Location
- Rochester NY
I think the answer to why your brakes pull to the right is in your post," I drove the truck today about 60 to 70 miles, felt of the hubs right after returning home and they were all cool except the right front seemed just a little bit warm. "
Only three reasons that would be warm and lefts not
#1 the right wheel bearing is bad and the wheels about to fall of (j/k) about falling off.
#2 the right caliper is dragging and not releasing
#3 the left caliper is hung up.
I highly doubt it's the bearing, but easy to check by jacking it up and spinning tire listen and feel for a rumble or roughness.
#2&3 a bit more work but still easy, remove both wheels and examine the brake pads, the should all be worn about the same. If the RF pads are both worn the caliper is sticking due to corrosion in the caliper itself. Some people here have had brake hoses "collapse" internally and block the return flow, I have not and don't see how that could happen but don't know enough about it to argue the point.
If one pad (piston side) is worn and the other isn't then the caliper sliders are at fault.
With the contaminated brake fluid and the age of the brake hoses, I think I would plan on replacing both front hoses and calipers. The front brakes provide 60% of the braking power, it'd suck to lose them when you really need them!
As for the front bearings, I'd plan on getting new inner seals and then clean and inspect them and probably repack them rather then replace. They are common so if you do need them they're easy to come by.
Hope this helps
Only three reasons that would be warm and lefts not
#1 the right wheel bearing is bad and the wheels about to fall of (j/k) about falling off.
#2 the right caliper is dragging and not releasing
#3 the left caliper is hung up.
I highly doubt it's the bearing, but easy to check by jacking it up and spinning tire listen and feel for a rumble or roughness.
#2&3 a bit more work but still easy, remove both wheels and examine the brake pads, the should all be worn about the same. If the RF pads are both worn the caliper is sticking due to corrosion in the caliper itself. Some people here have had brake hoses "collapse" internally and block the return flow, I have not and don't see how that could happen but don't know enough about it to argue the point.
If one pad (piston side) is worn and the other isn't then the caliper sliders are at fault.
With the contaminated brake fluid and the age of the brake hoses, I think I would plan on replacing both front hoses and calipers. The front brakes provide 60% of the braking power, it'd suck to lose them when you really need them!
As for the front bearings, I'd plan on getting new inner seals and then clean and inspect them and probably repack them rather then replace. They are common so if you do need them they're easy to come by.
Hope this helps
yes that should work for sure! I do a long parking lot and go in reverse and hit the brakes a bunch...sometimes you can hear them click if they're out to far.
nyoffroad
Well-known member
- 942
- 690
- 93
- Location
- Rochester NY
Yup, don't need to go fast or far, just hit your brakes hard while backing up and repeat.
- 7,721
- 19,768
- 113
- Location
- Charlotte NC
.
Agreed. Unless the guy before you put the self-adjusters in backward.
It is amazing how often that happens.
- 806
- 200
- 43
I went by the diagrams in TM's. Everything looked right, and the "stop lever" that only allows the adjuster gear go one direction seems right. Hope I got it right at least. Here is the drivers side when I got it done, obviously the passengers side is "reverse" but still has the parking brake lever and self adjuster lever on the "back side" of the hub facing toward the rear of the truck. Didn't take any picture of it before I put the passengers side back together. The first photos is still the one I took before I fixed the wheel cylinder pin that was out of place.
- 806
- 200
- 43
Yep, I backed up and stopped multiple times when I first drove it down the dirt road here. Then I would drive a ways and brake slow a few times, then hard a few times. Then repeated backing up and stopping a few times.
- 806
- 200
- 43
I agree, and the right hub being warm seems to show something is up there. And yes I certainly don't want to need to stop fast and not have full braking power. Just one of the reasons I wanted to go through everything after the rear wheel seal failed and I found how the parking brake pieces had fell apart. And even though I drove the truck that 60-70 mile round trip the other day, as I had been needing some things from the farm supply store. I would not want to haul anything heavy or tow a trailer until I get this fixed and can trust the brakes are fully functional.
One thing I can't remember if I said before, when I would brake hard and it pulled to the right, sometimes the brake light on the dash would come on. And it seemed to stay on until I touched the brake pedal again. Would this mean anything specifically? Or is it just because I braked hard enough that sometimes it would lock up the wheels on this dirt road? I thought that light was only to show when the parking brake was on, which it wasn't.
Yesterday I took both front wheels off to inspect everything. With tires off the floor, then again after removing tires, I pulled on the wheel and then just the hub to see if I could feel any play. Everything felt tight, didn't feel any play at all when pulling side to side or top to bottom. When turning the hub there was no bearing noise and it turned smoothly. So I think the bearings are fine. Guess the shop was just hoping I'd make a return visit, or maybe they did actually think the bearings had wear but the movement was from the tie rod ends that were bad at the time.
I just don't think it could be a rear brake holding, as I've never seen a rear brake causing the vehicle to pull to one side before. But I don't know, maybe it's possible.
And when it pulls to the right, to me it feels like its coming from the front. I looked at the outer pads on both sides and they look to be about 75% of the pad left. I couldn't see the inside pads hardly at all as the caliper was in the way, and I didn't remove the caliper yet. With that said, when I would spin the hub by hand by wheel studs, it did sound like a pad(s) were touching the rotor, but it sounded like that on both wheels...?? I didn't hear any scraping like some of the brake hardware was out of place or etc. The outside surface of the rotor looked/felt fine, it wasn't perfectly smooth but no grooves or anything. Couldn't feel of the back side of the rotor due to the backing plate of the hub being too close to the rotor to get my finger in there.
The brake hoses do have some dry rot checking, as I suspected they would. No leaks though. I was going to replace them anyway even before I looked at them, as who knows how old they are. I have heard of a brake hose collapsing internally, apparently the hoses are made of more than one layer and the inside layer can pull apart from the outer layer, and when the brake is released the "vacuum" collapses the inner layer of the hose. But again the hubs would turn by hand, however maybe if the hose was not collapsed completely it could cause it to only restrict/slow some of the flow? Or maybe its a slide pin that isn't moving, or at least are not moving the full amount.
I'm going to order new brake hoses and a differential cover gasket as its leaking around the bottom. Going to change out of the gear oil anyway.
I'm considering to go ahead and order calipers, pads, hardware kit, and wheel seals just in case. If nothing else, I would have a set of front wheel seals if one ever did start leaking. I don't know if the caliper would come with new slide pins or if I need to order those separately.
Speaking of which I was trying to figure out from the TM about the slide pins... They show the calipers in two sections just a few pages apart in the TM 9-2320-289-20P. But they seem to only show one short pin for the caliper?? What they list as a "shoulder screw" ?? If thats not it, then they don't seem to show them. All the calipers I've ever worked on had two long pins.
Looking up slide pins for an '84 civilian model on Rock Auto, they show these short screws for most of the listings. But then they do show two listings for longer pins. One listing is only 1 pin by itself that is 4-3/8". The other is for two pins that are listed as being "Assortment; Length: 4-1/8" and 4-3/8" Don't know if there are two pins that are two different lengths? Or if this is the "assortment" of two different length pins is just to "get both" and then use the one you need depending on the specific application. In either case, guess I have to order a qty of 2 as these both seem to be for only one caliper.
All the stores around here only carried 12oz bottles of DOT 5, even Oreillys that is in the "next closest" town. Even though the best price I found online for quarts was Oreillys. I ordered 2 quarts, still $60 though. I shouldn't use that much just to flush out the old fluid for the front brakes I wouldn't think, but always want to keep some on hand.
Last edited:
- 7,721
- 19,768
- 113
- Location
- Charlotte NC
.
I have had a truck that experienced the pull to the right.
Solution was a replacement brake caliper.
The problem would "come and go" and stayed gone with the replacement caliper.
Your adjusters are in correctly on that picture.
Best way to test it - after assembly - is to work the adjuster lever a time or two so you can see it function.
.
- 806
- 200
- 43
Yeah, I clicked the adjusters a few times to make sure they worked smoothly.
I've decided to order calipers and everything this morning. Would rather do the job once and get the truck back to full working order. I'll need to haul some stuff soon, so I need to get this done. Still have to fix my speedometer cable while I'm waiting for the parts to come in.
The brake light coming on should be the proportioning valve being stuck...I think that's where it gets the ground from...other than the parking brake....it is under the radiator support...I don't think I'd shoot the parts cannon until that gets checked...it can be replaced or I usually hit a dirt road and do panic stops at like 40mph to get the valve to move again...with no one around because it can pull pretty violently!!
- 806
- 200
- 43
at 40mph, I bet it would pull pretty violently.
can the combination/proportioning valve be taken off and cleaned out, Without having to completely readjust it? Or is it not adjustable like the rear proportioning valve is?
Last edited:
I went in the TM on page 118-1 or page 285 of 984 and found part number 1257087 as the original part number for the valve. The TM pic does show that it uses both outputs for the front so it can make a wicked pull on hard braking. It can get stuck but some good jams on the brake can get it to move again...possibly by flushing out the lines some too. Might have so rust or other stuff in there that might have it sticking. I've taken them apart in the past and cleaned them out...if I remember right there's a few O rings in it so nothing crazy. Do not take out the part that you plug into because it will break. It is not adjustable so some brave braking can get it to free up or if that doesn't work you can clean it out or buy a new one. There are a few out there in new GM boxes. The rear one works by a lever and not pressure so it is different on how it is actuated.
cucvrus
Well-known member
- 11,474
- 10,437
- 113
- Location
- Jonestown Pennsylvania
I was looking thru my tools and trying to locate the correct socket for the GM 14 bolt rear axle nuts. I could not find it. I remember loaning it out and must have never had it returned. It was a Snap-On of a Lisle. I can't remember. But if you have the correct socket, it makes a world of difference using it and getting the correct preload on the bearings. I know you all know about that keeping it centered and slipping every time you try and loosen and tighten the nut. The center pilot tube makes that a breeze. I just wanted to share this. The socket may still be here I just can't locate it at the moment. I don't need it anyway. Take Care and Be Safe.
- 806
- 200
- 43
I saw some sockets like that, but thought they were the wrong one