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repower with a screming detroit or possible big cam cummins?

n1bnc

n1bnc

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I noticed in the FR series manual it indicates that the transmission should not be used without an oil pump if operated at more than 12 degrees. Rather subtle problem if off roading.
 
Alex400

Alex400

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mudguppy

mudguppy

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Alex400 said:
I don't know exactly what you got to do, but you can convert the 24v to use the P7100 bosch Injection pump from the twelve valve cummins.
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you would need the pump, custom fuel lines, front gear case and cover. a good pump can be expensive. finding a gear case may be as expensive as the pump. the custom (swap) fuel lines are somewhere in between price-wise. then you need to disassemble the entire front ends to swap the parts. and, you're in it so far that you might as well put a different cam in.

so it's about $2k for the parts and a lot of your time. there's no benifit unless you are building a hi-HP motor.

even though the 12v p-pump is still king, the 24v can make more power than your friends will even joke about you needing. just put in a reliable fuel pump to keep the injector pump supplied at all times. and put a fuel gauge on there to monitor.
 
nhdiesel

nhdiesel

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12v vs. 24v is a big controversy. I have a 12v in my '96, 270k miles and not even a hiccup of the engine. A couple years ago I installed a fuel plate to bring me up to around 580 lbs. of torque, cost: $99. My friend has a 24v with 85k on it. Last year his lift pump went (very common for 24v) so he upgraded that with a high-quality aftermarket pump, cost: well over $400. Two weeks later his injection pump went out. Again, upgraded to an aftermarket pump that is supposed to have improved on some of the problems the factory pump had. Cost: $1800. Just 2 weeks ago I got a call, his lift pump went out again...another $400+. It was off warranty by 2 months. Right now the truck is still down because he's also fighting fuel leak issues.

I like my 12v and will never own a 24v. I do have to admit, however, its nice the way you can adjust the programmer on a 24v to change settings while you drive. But the drop in reliability and increase in part's cost just isn't worth it to me.

Jim
 
mudguppy

mudguppy

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nhdiesel said:
... Last year his lift pump went (very common for 24v) so he upgraded that with a high-quality aftermarket pump, cost: well over $400. Two weeks later his injection pump went out. ... Cost: $1800. ...
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it really should be no surprise that his IP went out after he replaced his lift pump. the VP44 injection pump is lubed by fuel, so when the lift pump goes out, it kills the IP. it's no surprise because lift pumps rarely ever just stop - they get weak. so it is extremely likely that the lift pump has been starving the IP for some time and the IP was already on it's way out by the time he replaced the lift pump.

and there's really no reason to buy a $400 lift pump. a $20 fuel pressure guage would have prevented all of this - the first time that guage hits 0 psi, it's time to change the $88 lift pump. after all, a lift pump is a 'wearable' item - they can't last forever.

and the parts aren't any cheaper on the 12v than the 24v (except for maybe injectors). parts on the 12v don't fail any less than parts on the 24v - the 24v is just a bit more sensitive to a failed part. similar failed parts on the 12v may not keep the engine from running, but may lead to an overall higher expense of repair once it finally stops. this isn't exactly the same thing as reliability. [example: the p-pump is primarily lubed by engine oil. however, damage to the plungers and barrels can result if the pump is run dry for prolonged time - so end repair could be the same as a 24v truck. but when a lift pump goes out on a 12v, it just runs crappy for so long that the lift pump is usually diagnosed and replaced before the IP fully goes. but if the P7100 IP does go, it could easily cost more than a VP44.]

but, you're right, it's nice to be able to adjust the power on the 24v.


also, buying "fuel plates" to tune your 12v is a waste of money. there are much better ways to 'tune' the power in your '96. if interested, let me know. [thumbzup]
 
Alex400

Alex400

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mudguppy said:
you would need the pump, custom fuel lines, front gear case and cover. a good pump can be expensive. finding a gear case may be as expensive as the pump. the custom (swap) fuel lines are somewhere in between price-wise. then you need to disassemble the entire front ends to swap the parts. and, you're in it so far that you might as well put a different cam in.

so it's about $2k for the parts and a lot of your time. there's no benifit unless you are building a hi-HP motor.

even though the 12v p-pump is still king, the 24v can make more power than your friends will even joke about you needing. just put in a reliable fuel pump to keep the injector pump supplied at all times. and put a fuel gauge on there to monitor.
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yeah i knew it wouldn't have been easy or really worth it, but i had a feeling it was possible. it would really be easiest to get a 12 valve and be done with in terms of a deuce.
 
R

res0wc18

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Everett, Wa
i like my friends CRD, but along with their many issue the blocks cracking will keep me far away from any 24v.

That being said with a clean running 12v a big inter cooler and some mist you can make some clean big numbers, more than enough to snap the duece's axles clean off(i have seen it twice)
 
Alex400

Alex400

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res0wc18 said:
i like my friends CRD, but along with their many issue the blocks cracking will keep me far away from any 24v.

That being said with a clean running 12v a big inter cooler and some mist you can make some clean big numbers, more than enough to snap the duece's axles clean off(i have seen it twice)
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well you probably don't need that much power! if you are looking to making a deuce a high performance vehicle, some 2" shafts, and some heavy duty drivelines. :grin:
 
T

Trango

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Location
Boulder, CO
Hey guys,

A little late to the party. I have a 3208NA (converted to turbo) on a deuce with a Spicer 6855 (.695 O/D speed). The power is actually pretty great. I am more pyro-limited than anything, even going up I-70hills at 10,000 feet here in Colorado at a steady 45-50MPH on an unloaded truck. Even with my .69 OD, I'm able to wrap the engine up all too easy to the 2800 redline, and the other issue I don't particularly enjoy (especially when loaded) is that the splits on a 5 speed are a bit too much for my liking. They'd be fine on a truck that sees most of its life in the flats, but the hills here are too unpredictable and long to have a truck with 40%, nearly 50% splits on the shifts.

So the reason I've been poking around again is that, in my garage, I have an RTOO-12609 that I put the 3 speed aux box on, essentially converting it to an RTOO-14613 (yes, you get a bump on input torque with this mod). This tranny has a .62 OD, and 13 forward gears to keep me in the power band.

With this swap, I'll likely finally split the braking circuit into two circuits. I have all the parts for this. Well, all the parts but time. :)

This is a truck with 315/80r22.5 radials, and power steering with a Ross box outside of the frame rails.

I'm wondering if I should, when I swap the tranny...

a) Also put in a hopped up 12v, or another engine, in place of the 3208. Part of me thinks I could do this for relatively cheaply. Torque is the name of the game in the hills around here.

or

b)

I may also just sell this truck to a fellow aficionado and start over, maybe even on a 5 ton chassis, where I could fit both a mill like the DT466 and this big transmission.

Anyone know of any 5 tons with holes in the block? :)

Don't get me wrong. I positively love the 3208, but I would love about 50% more power, and once I have to start relocating the transfercase etc, I might not want to be stuck with the 3208 just because it (with the tranny mated) fit in the space before the tcase when everything went together the first time.

Ah, decisions. Tough calls.

Anyone have an easy answer for me? I've been kicking myself about this project for now almost 2 years, trying to figure out what platform and engine will be most drivable, while still in love with my truck as it stands now.

Best,
Bob
 
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