Winch problem on a fire dept M54A2 5ton

Celticlady

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Our volunteer fire dept has a 1990 Kaiser M54A2 converted to a tanker.

Using the winch has been a issue. Mostly because we don't know what we are doing. Finally got the PTO to engage. Then had difficulty getting the lever in front to work. We had the cable pulled out. Then once we got the action to retract couldn't shut it off. By the time we got everything shut down the winch had wrapped the chain and hook up and the hook had snagged the horizontal brace across the back. Now everything is all jambed up. Can't get it to unwind or wind.

Looks like we are going to have to remove the winch assembly to get it all untangled. Which I am sure will cause other issues.

HELP!
 
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Karl kostman

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My very first question is did you read the manual on how to operate the winch PRIOR to this happening? Well what is done is done now just have to fix what happened! First off depending on what was in this winch as a shear pin could be very good for you, that is if the shear pin is a regulation shear pin for this winch, they are pretty soft and do their job fairly well to save in inside of the winch! First thing I would do is knock the shear pin out of the winch drive shaft if you are able that should free it up enough to untangle it. If you do this and it still wont move I would take a prybar and try to move the drum to get the winch out of gear right now I am guessing the winch is under pressure and wont come out of gear? Once you get it freed up and moving I would check the shear pin and see what it is, if its whats supposed to be in there then you are good if its not then I would replace it with whats supposed to be in there. BEFORE you apply power to this winch and try using it again you do truly need to read the manual and understand what its telling you!! Also read the winch troubleshooting section that will also give you lots of information and give you some good guidance on how best to proceed!
 

dmetalmiki

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100% agree with K post above.
Why in heck did you NOT read an/some/all the pertaining instructions first?.
There is ample information on this site and videos on utube about the use of the winch on these trucks.
And (Before the using the function!( READ UP)), The winch system has 'reverse payout function'.
 

Celticlady

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Instructions??? ha ha I got a whole bunch of shoulda coulda woulda.....

Trying to find that manual here now.

It a PTO winch

Yes the shear pin is sheared. I have both half's in my hand. Well I have ends with small cotter pins. Probably the rest is still in the shaft. Looks like 3/8 aluminum round stock.

No it drum won't move.

We tried tying a large rope wrapped around the drum and through one of the chain links to try to unwind. We didn't break the rope but it was very taunt. Didn't work.
 

Guyfang

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The shear pin is all that saved you from doing real damage.

The shear pin is now the reason you can not get the winch to do anything. since its PTO driven. The shift arm. What position is it in? I have had to use a BFH on them from time to time.

I seem to remember having this problem about 40 (?) years ago. We took the PTO linkage off. Then used an air impact gun, with an "adapter" we made, to turn the drum until the pressure was off the drum and cable. Then we used a jeep to pull the cable out.

Please get the right shear pin to put back in. I have seen several trucks that had a steel bolt or pin used. Major damage.

RTFB Its a shame no one filmed what happened. Wonderful training material.

Yes, I have done something very similar.

Have you found the TM yet?
 

NDT

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When you replace the shear pin, the PTO will be able to unwind the spool. Pry the drive yoke off the winch input shaft and drive the broken piece out. You can also manually unwind the spool by inserting a drift punch in the U-joint and forcing the driveshaft to turn.
 

Celticlady

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Thanks

Good ideas.

Where do I get the correct shear pin. Or the correct material to make one? I have a small shop lathe. I have brass and some aluminum. stock

Most of the problem is its a small volunteer fire dept. The guy that was doing maintenance had to quit because of health and age (80) There is one guy that does seem to know about this equipment but I have a hard time to get him out to help. 2 jobs etc. I have a LMTV with a OEM winch but that is totally different. I am a retired aircraft mech. Maybe if there was suck and blow engine in it I could do better.

Don't say it, cuz yes, I should have read the manual.

Now back to that.

I think after looking at the Deuces TMs, that what I have, it is NOT what I was told. Year/ model etc. Nothing is the same.

This is a US forestry truck. There has been a lot of modifications over the years.

Were do I find the data plate and how to read it.?

Maybe I need to go there and take some pictures of the dash and the winch.
 

NDT

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The pin can come from ebay, Memphis Equipment, your home shop. Use aluminum.
Finding someone to wrench for the department can be a challenge. I maintain 3 LMTVs for my VFD. The reason I became a ff is my desire to work on these trucks, try to find someone like me haha. Maybe a vet, maybe a high school auto shop student.
 

Recovry4x4

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Let's start with a bunch of pictures. We can figure most of this out from there. First thing is to get the prop shaft off the winch. Now that the pin is sheared, it's just a matter of prying it back. From there you will need to rotate the input shaft of the winch to relieve the tension. Post pics, do that and report back. Day late and a dollar short but here goes. Winch operations are done from the cab and shutting the engine down always shuts the winch down. Once the PTO is engaged, nothing can be controlled at the winch.
 

Celticlady

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Ok getting ready to head out the door. As far as taking the shaft off, maybe. I can't take the truck out of service. Not today . We haven't had rain or snow for over a week. Its 30 mph winds. There have been 3 brush fires in the last 24 hrs. Its drivable with out a winch.
 

Celticlady

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You don't need to take it our of service. Slide shaft off winch input shaft, unbolt 4 bolts at PTO and it's out.

I did. Came out. easy

I can not turn the drum input shaft with a punch in the shear pin hole.

Before I put a BIG pipe wrench on that shaft with possibility of buggering it up. Any more suggestions?

I have more pictures but these seem to cover it.

Data plate says its a M 54A2. and the Fed stock#.
I didn't see a year. Thought the stock number might cross to a year?

Lever in front is in between. DE83F944-AA6E-452F-B6B4-0D49BB3395AD.jpegA3F441D3-52A3-44E8-9AD4-02BAB5D76315.jpeg4F088F59-AE38-46B5-88CF-8A7127D17621.jpegE96641AD-58F6-473B-9383-974C4B05CADC.jpeg534EA3A7-BA20-4A5A-8276-B253EE6E61AF.jpeg95103C78-0216-4027-B4BA-C78F2153F7B6.jpeg
DE83F944-AA6E-452F-B6B4-0D49BB3395AD.jpegA3F441D3-52A3-44E8-9AD4-02BAB5D76315.jpeg4F088F59-AE38-46B5-88CF-8A7127D17621.jpegE96641AD-58F6-473B-9383-974C4B05CADC.jpeg534EA3A7-BA20-4A5A-8276-B253EE6E61AF.jpegDE83F944-AA6E-452F-B6B4-0D49BB3395AD.jpegA3F441D3-52A3-44E8-9AD4-02BAB5D76315.jpeg4F088F59-AE38-46B5-88CF-8A7127D17621.jpegE96641AD-58F6-473B-9383-974C4B05CADC.jpeg534EA3A7-BA20-4A5A-8276-B253EE6E61AF.jpeg95103C78-0216-4027-B4BA-C78F2153F7B6.jpeg
 

NDT

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Oh that is a 5 ton not a deuce. Year is late 1960's. If you need exact year i can try to figure it out. I would put the correct shear pin back in and try to unwind the cable. if the pin breaks, I would put in a steel bolt JUST FOR THE PURPOSES of unwinding the drum, then put the correct pin back. Don't put a pipe wrench on the input shaft!
 

Recovry4x4

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Same situation, different animal. I would still take that shaft out and try to unwind the tension with a punch or screwdriver through the shear pin hole. If you can relieve the tension, then is just a (dificult) matter of unspooling the drum. Once you get the tension off, disengage that lever on the back of the winch. You need to go to the TM section and download TM 9-2320-211-10 to get directions on how to operate that winch.

Edit, hope this works. http://www.steelsoldiers.com/upload/5Ton/TM9-2320-211-10.pdf
 
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