Working On The M561 Gama Goat

[mkcoen]

Well I managed to get the seats and the tranny cover out but that was about all I could muster. Climbing up and down so many times yesterday working on the radiator did me in. Fortunately Keith_J was able to swing by this evening and he got the oil filter canister lined up and this time when he started it no oily showers all over the shop floor. I had planned to drive it to the San Antonio Monthly get together this weekend but have the feeling that's not going to happen. I'm leaving for a 10 day trip on Aug 14 and need to get my reserves back up to full before then.

 

[combat32]

I been thinkin about that spin on adapter.

 

[TexAndy]

The goat would GREATLY benefit from a spin on oil filter adapter. Does someone make one?

I would imagine someone somewhere has them available, if this engine was used in a bunch of stuff like people tell me it was.

Otherwise, I think making one wouldn't be too terribly difficult. I think I could do it, on my lathe. Two pieces. A steel nipple with engine block threads on one side and filter threads on other side. And a filter base. Turn it out of a block of aluminum sized to fit the kind of filters you want to use.

IOW, just copy the design they used for the ldt-465 spin on adapters.

 

[combat32]

You can buy one from Detroit parts suppliers, saw it online but can't remember where, high though at about 100 bucks.

 

[mkcoen]

Seems like I remember running across someone selling NOS transmission tunnels (with all the info plates on them) but didn't think I needed one at the time. After pulling mine yesterday I'm rethinking that but now can't remember or find who had them for sale. Anybody run across any in their searches?

 

[mkcoen]

Spent about 10 minutes typing a post just to have the page freeze on me as I hit "post" and lost it.

Why I hate electrical issues #7562: - oil pressure gauge has always been a bit wonky so I pulled the dash panel and checked all the connections and they all looked fine. I wanted to test drive the Goat after getting the rebuilt radiator in so did the pre-flight and suddenly the right turn signal, which TexAndy and I had worked on for half a day to no avail, is suddenly working. I'm guessing the brake light on that side probably works now too but didn't have a soldier B to check so I'll have to do that later.

I figured I'd take a quick 3 mile loop around the neighborhood and could get an idea on the oil pressure and the water temp at the same time. I let it warm up in the driveway for about 15 minutes. It's about 92° and sunny today and after warming up the temp gauge was at 140° which was great but oil pressure wouldn't get above about 14psi. Since idle is between 18-30psi I wasn't too concerned and headed out clearing stray dogs, wild deer and feral children from in front of me.

I maxed out at about 30mph, limit in the hood, and made a left turn onto the loop after about 1 mile. Oil pressure was only around 15psi (should be 30-60) and water temp was around 180°. The loop goes gradually uphill then downhill to the river then back uphill, levels off, then a gradual downhill back to my street. I thought this would be a good workout to see if everything stayed within operating perameters. It didn't. The entire trip the oil pressure never got up to 20psi (probably not over 1 The water temp, however was at 200° halfway up the hill (not really steep and still going around 25mph). By the time I got to the stop sign to turn on to my street it was at 200°. I only had about 2 blocks to go so just kept at it and the gauge hit 240° as I was pulling in to the driveway.

The water pump belts looked fine but I guess they could be slipping and not engaging the water pump entirely. I'm not really sure how to check other than just staring at the pulling and seeing if it's turning or not. I have no idea on the oil pressure. I guess I could try another gauge but other than that, no clue.

 

[cpf240]

Get a mechanical oil pressure gauge and see if the one in the dash is accurate or not... you mentioned that it has been "a bit wonky", so I don't know that I'd trust anything it says...

 

[TexAndy]

Could you have air pockets in the radiator? I seem to faintly recall something from an old click and clack show about having to run the engine with the radiator cap off for awhile anytime you replaced the radiator or flushed it.

 

[mkcoen]

Could you have air pockets in the radiator? I seem to faintly recall something from an old click and clack show about having to run the engine with the radiator cap off for awhile anytime you replaced the radiator or flushed it.

-20 just says to refill and install pressure cap before starting but we know how often they're wrong. I'll give that a shot tomorrow to see if it changes the level at all. My biggest concern is that the thermostat is bad. Not something I want to pull and check or have to replace but if it doesn't resolve then that's probably the next step. Anybody replace one yet and have a part number?

I do have a tube behind the starter, probably about 1/4" diameter, that is dripping coolant. I can't seem to find it in any of the manuals in regards to the cooling system. It's a fairly small, slow drip with about a pint leaking out in the hour after parking. The best hope is that it's some kind of overflow but it has me worried nonetheless.

 

[mkcoen]

Regarding spin on filters - this is what I found on a popular auction site. Both are offered by the same seller:

1) This is for converting both oil AND fuel filters but is a bit pricey but in line given all 3 filters - $297

NEW DETROIT DIESEL 353 453 8V92 12V71 SPIN ON OIL FILTER AND FUEL FILTER CONVERSION KIT
THIS KIT WILL REPLACE YOUR OLD CANISTER FILTER TO THE NEW STYLE SPIN ON FILTERS
THIS WILL WORK ON THE FOLLOWING DETROIT DIESEL ENGINES
SERIES 53
371 471 AND 6-71 INLINE
6V53 8V53 6V71 8V71 6V92 8V92 12V71 12V92 16V71 16V92
NOTE :OIL FILTER ADAPTER WILL NOT WORK ON 271
EVERYTHING IN THE PICTURE IS INCLUDED
1 - NEW OIL FILTER SPIN ON ADAPTER AND FILTER
1 - NEW PRIMARY SPIN ON FUEL FILTER HEAD AND FILTER
1 - NEW SECONDARY SPIN ON FUEL FILTER HEAD AND FILTER

2) This one is just the oil filter conversion - $78

THIS IS THE ADAPTER YOU NEED TO CONVERT THE OLD STYLE CANISTER OIL FILTER TO THE UPDATED SPIN-ON FILTER
THIS ADAPTER WILL WORK ON MOST DETROIT DIESEL SERIES 53, 71, 92, AND 149 SERIES ENGINES
WILL NOT WORK ON ENGINES WITH THE OLD STYLE BYPASS OIL FILTER SYSTEM

 

[combat32]

I think that drip you are talkin about is your airbox drain, I believe that is normal.

 

[mkcoen]

I think that drip you are talkin about is your airbox drain, I believe that is normal.

Wrong side the engine isn't it? I followed the line up and it appears to be coming out of the block by #3 cylinder.

 

[m38inmaine]

Thermostat is 3038144, make sure the tensioner spring is working on the water pump pulley, I sprayed mine with some kroil to loosen it up, the TM also mentions this. Spray oil right on the spring and let it soak in.

 

[mkcoen]

Thermostat is 3038144, make sure the tensioner spring is working on the water pump pulley, I sprayed mine with some kroil to loosen it up, the TM also mentions this. Spray oil right on the spring and let it soak in.

Thanks! The only number I could come up with was a NAPA 34033 that had a cross reference to a DD 3-53 in a CAT. I'll check both and see if they cross match or if the one I pulled is incorrect.

Any idea on the drip tube? Is there some way with the thermostat stuck that the block stays pressurized and this is a failsafe or something? It's been almost 24 hours and it's still dripping about every 2 seconds.

 

[Warthog]

Just marking it territory.

 

[m38inmaine]

I am new to this engine so I can't be of much help with this problem. I did purchase a injector timing gage from a outfit who claims to be the authority on these engines. Give Stephen a call @ 504.362.2371 and see what he says, probably a good source for the thermostat as well. It looks like according to the parts tm that tube on the drivers side of the engine is part of the air box drain, I don't think you should be seeing coolant come out there. The over heat condition may have breached a seal and is allowing coolant where it should not be.

 

[mkcoen]

I'm glad I've changed automotive thermostats before. If you follow the TM you'll spend about an extra hour and have to find a square gasket for the thermostat housing. If you instead just take the hose flange off and pop the thermostat out it's 4 hose clamps and 2 bolts holding the flange on. The gasket for that looks like a standard thermostat gasket.

I did confirm that the thermostat is bad. Had it water from 140° up to a rolling boil and nothing. I'm still concerned about the tube leak though. While I see where you guys are looking at Fig 6 in the -34p and it says it's for the air box lines I just can't see how something coming directly out of the side of the block and going down to an open tube has anything to do with the air box but if it does, what else besides the actual water jacket on the block would allow the leak?

 

[Keith_J]

I would suspect the engine ingested a bunch of coolant vapor when the belts failed, this accumulated in the air box and it just needs to drain over time as the leak down function only functions when the air box has no pressure..with the engine off.

 

[mkcoen]

I would suspect the engine ingested a bunch of coolant vapor when the belts failed, this accumulated in the air box and it just needs to drain over time as the leak down function only functions when the air box has no pressure..with the engine off.

Wouldn't it have been leaking during the time the radiator was out? It only started leaking after I test drove it with the new radiator. Also it stopped once I drained the coolant down low enough to pop the thermostat out. I guess I won't know for sure until I get the new thermostat and put it in. I've actually been wondering if I shouldn't just leave it out. It's not like I have to worry about cold starts very often around here.

 

[Keith_J]

The drain valve on the air box can be fickle. It probably needed blowing out from dust and the like. Since you know the cooling system is holding pressure, monitor the air box drain. You probably raised a bunch of dust from 45 years that knocked loose.

never run without a thermostat. It provides resistance to flow, turbulence from excessive flow can lead to high temperature locations. Not as much of a prob
em in a diesel, especially two stroke direct injection diesel but still valid.

thermostats are proportional devices, they keep the engine at operating temperature.