Check valve for oil filters?

[Recovry4x4]

OK, guess you oil heads already figured this out but the bypass on the filters is rated at 15 psi. Same with the oil heat exchanger, it's a 15 psi bypass as well. This tells me that when the backpressure on the filters exceeds 15psi, the oil does exactly that, bypass the filters. Judging by the design of the exsting filter exchanger assy, both the filter and bypass flow occur inside this housing. Now its just a matter of tapping in before the bypass and after the bypass. If the 15 psi valve works correctly, it will divert all the oil flow to the filters unless they exceed 15psi of resistance then the bypass will open. I've got a neat oil flow diagram but no way to scan it. Sound about right Mike?

 

[devilman96]

I think had and lost that diagram your referring to some time ago and have been looking for it ever since... It was in a post somewhere a LONG time ago... If ya get the chance I would very much appreciate getting a copy.

I couldn't remember the exact psi on those but I knew it was much lower than the system psi, I was thinking 28psi but like I said the ole memory chip needs more capacity!!!

I think going into and out of the ports I am referring to puts you with the cooler bypass in between as your mentioning so yeah I do believe that is the ticket...

But as I have said 100 times over on this subject in many different postings... its half tested theory until I get it flowing oil...

 

[Recovry4x4]

Ha, no scanner but a camera. This out of a book I just got from G744. Coming in handy already.

 

[Boatcarpenter]

OK 4x4, how does the bypass valve differentiate between say 50psi system pressure and 15psi "backpressure" from the filters? Or does that mean that as soon as your system oil pressure reaches 15+psi that bypass valve will start to crack open and start bypassing some oil?
BC

 

[Boatcarpenter]

Come to think of it, if in fact the bypass valve opens at 15psi system pressure, why couldn't you put the bypass valves going into the filters and the oil cooler so you would have direct flow in the system on startup and when the press hit 15psi, the filters would start to fill and the oil cooler would start to circulate oil? I'm probably missing something here, but what?

 

[cranetruck]

The bypass valves open when the differential pressure is greater than 15 psi.

 

[cranetruck]

When the pressure drop across the filters or oil cooler is greater than 15 psi, the valves open. This image from the TM 9-2815-210-35.

 

[Boatcarpenter]

Got it, differential pressure, big difference!

 

[cranetruck]

See, asking the right question is sooooooooo important.

 

[m139h2otruck]

I would like to throw my 2 cents into the ring if I may.

While I don't have a multi, and have never really studied this particular engine, except for the discussions here, I do know something about engines and oil systems, having modified a number of engines, including a Ford SOHC427 w/ oil pressure of 85-100psi hot, a 14 sec quarter mile slant six w/ home-brewed cross-drilled crank, and a 230 Jeep/M715 hemi six with modified two-way oiling system and remote filter. All of these engines run the long Ford truck filters (Fram # PH977) w/ internal bypass.

The easiest thing I see you can do to the multi is remove the oil cooler/filter unit completely and install a diverter plate, piped/hosed to a duplex filter base for spin on filters with internal bypass valves. The back of the WIX book is full of information, including all dimensions for their filters, internal bypass valve options and micron ratings. They also sell a number of single and dual bases in various sizes. Fram (not my favorite) does sell, for the racers, a very heavy large filter/base unit that also is a possible candidate. If a simple temperature gauge is installed on the outlet of the filter base, you could determine if the oil temperatures are running too high or low and correct for it using an air to oil or water to oil cooler plumbed into the outlet line from the filters. It is my opinion that you want to run 190 to 220 degrees for the oil temperature during normal to heavy operations to keep water and acid from forming. A plate type air to oil cooler is not as sensitive to overpressure as a water to oil cooler and should not need a bypass/relief valve. The system relief valves still in the engine should protect the cooler and filters from over pressure and maintain system pressure at the design level.

Just my view on the subject and maybe all wet! Thanks

 

[devilman96]

A few problems...

In dealing with filters large enough for the LD's volume there are no "internal bypass" filters made by anyone in those sizes. This leaves your filters to take a fairly high psi which would split the canisters open.

Two of the systems bypass valves are located in the housing... Removing it and re-plumbing it would be a mess of fittings to get the bypass back...

You loose the cooler/warmer heat regulation so your temps are less efficient screwing with the engines over all performance...

 

[rdixiemiller]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=90890#90890
The thread on the IP lube line shows a possible location to plug in a bypass oil filter. Run the IP oil line to a filter assy, return back to the IP. 1/8NPT should flow about 15 gpm, turning over the oil volume almost 3 times per hour. With a really efficient bypass filter, you could gain some cleaning ability.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Robert, you might just be on to something here. The only thing I would add is a pressure gauge before the filter. At least knowing the pressure with a clean filter would give you an idea of how the filter is doing when it gets dirty. Would hate to clog up the filter and dry out the IP. Other than that, sounds like a great idea. How much is a quality bypass filter assy? Maybe a Frantz porta-john special.

 

[rdixiemiller]

Don't know, I'll see what I can stir up. You could mount a remote oil pressure gauge from the filter to the dash so you could monitor the filter condition.
.

 

[rdixiemiller]

Make that "1/8npt should flow 15 GPH", not GPM.

 

[devilman96]

The bases I used in my trucks thread were modified bypass bases. The exit hole in the base is only 1/8 from the filter, hence it being a bypass base. The thread connections are 1/2 npt inlet and outlet.

Base is Napa PN 4750
The suggested filter is 1749

These are designed to be used as a bypass filter ONLY as they will not support full flow. If I remember right the base was about 40$ and the filter about 13$.

 

[OPCOM]

Has anyone ever removed the oil pressure sender from an engine and noticed if the passage is large enough to support pre-oiling through the 'hole'? Granted it won't fill up the filters much but it would oil up the engine.

 

[red devils dude]

oil pressure sender has a standard 1/4NPT opening in the block.

 

[devilman96]

I think it would blow oil into the journals and such fine from there but I think you would still have a long delay in getting oil pressure as the filters are what take so much time to fill up. In the process you would also get a rush of air in the system from the filter area blowing out whatever oil you injected from your prelube shot... Unless you went with a pump system

If you really wanted a preoiler installed its a fairly easy and could probably be done with a spare air tank that was properly cleaned along with a 24V valve. The air tank can handle the pressure and already has the needed fittings in the right places for draining and plumbing. Installing the line might be better to go directly into the oil housing from a plug in the front just below the rear of the air compressor (1/2 NPT). That would push oil both to the pump and into the system starting with the filters, then cooler, then into the block... Its going to take about 1.5 gallons of oil to make all of that happen which is a good bit of volume but a air tank will provide that. Some other bonuses to the air tank is they are cheap, easy to mount as you can hang one next to the existing tanks on most trucks and would be in a serviceable location as you would need to drain it for oil changes.

I think this is a very simple, straight forward mod and would only take about 3-4 hours at most to do with a modest amount spent. It would solve PSI on start up but I don't think it will help the longevity of your engine THAT much... From what I've learned the LD's biggest killer is its filtration system as a whole, getting a more productive filter in the system will be a huge plus and a by product of the change will get the start up pressure time down to 2-3 seconds as apposed to 8-15, to me I would say that is a "workable" situation... Both additions would probably be the best combination to the over all well being of the truck.

 

[luapmonn]

I think having oil pressure as quickly as possible would be the best thing you could do for any engine. I just did a calculation and figured out that a 6 cylinder 4 cycle engine would have 318.75 power strokes in 15 seconds at 850 rpms. I have worked on engines for 30 years and have never seen any other engine without a serious problem take 15 seconds to get oil pressure. I have seen engines without oil filters ( VW ) run 50000 miles but they don't run long without pressure. What I am saying is I think having oil flow is most important.