Check valve for oil filters?

[m139h2otruck]

I may have missed it somewhere in this discussion, but has anyone checked cold startup oil pressure time with a direct coupled gage? When we were troubleshooting our 5 ton gasser, I used a cheap mechanical gage hooked into the normal oil pressure port. On cold startup, the pressure climbed rapidly, in less than 5 sec., and actually registered during cranking. This engine uses two large bypass filters only and the oil pressure port is at the end of the system on the back right side of the motor. When the new electric gage and correct sender were installed, the time lag became very noticeable, but I don't worry as we already proved that the pressure was there. In the new truck with the 855 Cummins, the oil pressure gage is directly coupled to the engine as there is a safety switch installed in line with the gage. On cranking and firing, the gage immediately starts to rise and hits 30-40 psi within 4-5 sec. The Cummins has to draw oil through the long lines on the outside of the pan and it still comes right up to pressure quickly.

 

[OPCOM]

TM 9-2320-361-34 section 3-13 shows the oil pressure regulator. It is after the filters, but is accessible from the side ofthe engine just as the oil pressure sender is. In the bottom of it is a removable threaded plug. a possible point to inject prelube, but unfortunately not before the filters, so it won't fill them.

In section 3-15, is shown the previously suggested 1/2" NPT plug (item 16) which is where the oil is said to go into the filters. This looks like the place! Have to see if it is accesible and if an elbow can be placed there without removing anything cumbersome. Here's a question, is teflon tape (or what?) to be used on an oil pressure fitting such as this?

 

[devilman96]

Teflon is ok ... There are two types of tape, the white which is more common is technically for water applications but will "work", the yellow is for oil, hyd applications and is just thicker / heaver.... Bjorn can prolly whip out a photo of the two.

I prefer a thread sealer in oil and hyd applications but often use Teflon just because its easier to keep around.

 

[cranetruck]

Devilman, you made the following statement earlier,

"The term is actually suggestive and means very little to how a filter works... Even when speaking in terms of "nominal" and "absolute" micron its generic as 1, 2, 10 or 40 means nothing to flow and filtration... the beta rating is what matters."

Question, is it possible that a 25 micron filter under the right circumstances (as in lower oil pressure) can act as a filter with a lower micron rating operating under a higher pressure?

 

[cranetruck]

Another question, does the built-in bypass valve found in some filters work on absolute or differential (as found on the multifuel engine) pressure?

 

[Recovry4x4]

Bjorn, funny you mention that. I was down at Mikes shop yesterday and that very subject came up when looking ad a pump/filtering device he made up to filter used motor oil for fuel. I think the answer is yes but Mike can explain. I'm just dumb when it comes this.

 

[cranetruck]

Kenny, I got lots of questions, most go unanswered though....
Guess i'm getting lazy in my older days.

 

[cranetruck]

Here is one more, how does different oils handle soot? It's abrasive and if the oil didn't carry it along, but let it drop to the bottom of the pan it would be harmless... is there a difference here in how oils from the 60's handled soot compared to current oils?

 

[WillWagner]

Bjorn, when these engines were made and now, big differences. That's what all those SAE ratings are on the oil container. The additive packages added to the oils make the soot and other particulates be suspended in the oil and not drop out so they can be carried to the filter. When the multi was made, the SAE rating was much lower, C-D maybe?? Now we're up to I-J. We have a delima here, A good oil/additive package that keeps the junk suspended, and a filtration system that is incapable...only because nobody makes a good microglass type filter...of filtering the suspended junk!
Anyone know the GPM of the lube pump on the multifuel?

 

[cranetruck]

Bjorn, when these engines were made and now, big differences. That's what all those SAE ratings are on the oil container. The additive packages added to the oils make the soot and other particulates be suspended in the oil and not drop out so they can be carried to the filter...

Hmm...so the soot dropped out and collected in the pan. Wouldn't that mean that there was a lot less soot in the oil then, reducing the requirement for the filter to filter it? If the pump didn't pick it up, it would stay in the pan until oil was drained/changed or is that wrong?
Do the new oils add to the filter requirements?

 

[devilman96]

Question, is it possible that a 25 micron filter under the right circumstances (as in lower oil pressure) can act as a filter with a lower micron rating operating under a higher pressure?

Ok... a stab at this in the long winded version for everyone reguardless of technical level.

The term micron is purely suggestive... It is used to describe the size of the element inside of a filter but it does not in any way, shape or form mean that said element will filter at that rating because to many factors such as heat, time and pressure are not taken into consideration. Most filters have a "micron rating" and most filters also have a "absolute" and "nominal" micron ratings but even those are suggestive. Both Wix and Fram can make a identical filter from the same element material and one can call it a 10 micron while the other calls it a 30 micron filter... When purchasing a filter this would lead a consumer to believe that one filter in better than the other when it fact they are identical. Nether manufacture is "lying" about the rating, they are just using 2 different means of applying the rating to that filter. This is why you should never trust a filter manufacture that says "ours are designed to X spec and theirs are designed to Y spec, there for ours are better and the other guys is substandard. (Construction method is not being considered here so please ignore that for the moment)...

There are too many variable in filtration to slap a rating on a filter by its element size or construction...

Because of this confusion the industry has slowly and some what reluctantly adapted what is called the "beta" (Bx) rating... which tests and rates a filters efficiency to remove particles of a specific size. This is done by measuring particles before (Nu) and after (Nd) fluid/air passes through a filter... Bx= Nu/Nd for your people whom are smarter than I am... There are several standards and or methods for this testing (ISO4572, ASE 806B, etc) I would suggesting googling filter beta testing and reading up on some of them as me explaining the process or standards would take pages.

There are other variables to beta testing which are added to the parameters which vary depending on a filters designed use such as heat, pressure, flow, etc. Fuel filters might be tested at 150F while oil filters tested 250F (these are just examples, not correct temps)...

The newer commercial filters made by Baldwin, Wix, etc are showing these rating on their filters... For the moment to most of us they look like Chinese scribbled on the side of the filter but I think this will be transcribed over time into a more understandable terminology for the average Joe to understand. Some manufactures are proudly displaying this information and some are avoiding it like a plague as their high dollar racing filter or their low cost "OEM equivalents" don't measure up to the number they would like to see or have us believe as that 10 micron filter is looking more like a 60 micron jobber.

As for flow rates and pressures... Yes depending on the micron rating and how its applied to a filter it is possible that the filter could perform better than actually rated especially if you are using it in a set design. For example the filters Kenny mentioned seeing while he was over. I have been filtering off waste oil to be cut with diesel for the trucks which is being stored up for Aberdeen... When I am pumping oil I am using a Wix filter with a 8 micron absolute / 3 micron nominal rating... (beta is B2>5 under ISO4572)... If you were to slap a "generic micron rating" on the filer it would prolly be in the middle of the road between the two so lets say its 5 micron... Being that I am pumping at 1.2 gpm and about 10 psi which is far under the filters intended range my actual rating would proably be very close to 3...

 

[cranetruck]

Perhaps a mil-spec 25 micron filter isn't all bad then (Parmatic 690058, Purolator 65374, Wix 051596 etc).
I'm only playing the devil's advocate here, trying to find a reasonable explanation for the massive 25 micron oil filters on the multies.
Adding a bypass filter looks mighty attractive (a la' Amsoil)...

 

[cranetruck]

Dug up some more info, the oil pump capacity is 22 GPM at 2,600 rpm and 180°F for the multies except for the -2, which is 29 GPM at 2,800 rpm (all 30 weight oil).

 

[OPCOM]

Here is the plug Devilman96 suggested. looks like there might be enough room to do the job there especially if a reducing plug such as on the master cylinder was used with a smaller size 90-degree elbow (room to swing the eblow). the spotty yellowish lighting is my targeting lamp for taking pictures in the dark.

 

[cranetruck]

As far as plumbing in the bypass filter, I'm inclined to use the pressure gauge connection. Adding a Tee and combining the drain to the oil pan with the turbo lube drain, if practical.

 

[devilman96]

That might throw your oil psi off as you would have something closer to free flow near the sending unit... just a thought.

 

[houdel]

That might throw your oil psi off as you would have something closer to free flow near the sending unit... just a thought.

I'm with Bjorn on this one. I have checked out the Amsoil and FS2000 sites extensively, and that is what they recommend. The bypass filter is restricted to bypass only about 10% of the oil flow, probably less than that on the multifuel considering the high oil flow volume. Since the oil sender is at the bottom of the lube chain, so to speak, everything before it has has more oil pressure than the sender (except for the #6 rod, which helps explain why it is usually the first to go). The mfrs above do state to expect an oil pressure drop of up to 5 PSI when the bypass filter is installed.

 

[bottleworks]

I just got back from picking up the filter heads from UPS. I should be starting on the oil filter project Tuesday evening. Here are some pictures of the filter heads. More pictures once parts start going on the truck...

 

[Floridianson]

Sorry Devilman never ment to be rude.
Does anyone have a pic of the side of the block without the filter and cooler?
I would still like to dump the whole system and not work around it.
I guess I always liked the chrome luberfiner that was on the side of my GMC General dump truck. I could change the filter before I opened the hood.
It was like 24 inches long and 11 inches across. Had lots of filter area.
Never inquired as to the range of filteration.

 

[cranetruck]

For the sake of the engine, I hope you have done your homework, never underestimate the engineering of the 1960's.